Mixing DIY Scan-speak fronts with Aperion for surrounds?

[ErinH]

I'll be building a home in the next year or two and I'm starting to plan out the media center already. I’ve got a friend who does home audio stuff on the side (amazing work, btw). He can get Scanspeak drivers at cost for me, which saves me about 40% off MSRP. I’m a huge fan of scanspeak drivers. I’ve listened to Dyn, Audio Technology, Seas, Vifa, and Dayton raw driver DIY setups before and I prefer the Scanspeak ‘sound’ to all of them; even the uncolored Dyns.

Having said all that (basically just letting those who are bound to say ‘you can do better for the money’ know that I’m set on Scan), my real question is the integration of Scans in the front (L/C/R) and using my Aperion bookshelf speakers as the surrounds. I realize that surrounds really aren’t as detrimental to the sound as the fronts are, but I still have some pause about doing this. Do you guys think it’d be alright?... will there be any ‘gaps’ so to speak, with the response?

If so, is it enough to warrant spending a few hundred more on matching drivers for the surrounds?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

It'll be fine ... any decent modern receiver or processor can do all the 'matching' needed to make mismatched surrounds work just fine.

 

[ErinH]

You mean in terms of level matching? How do receivers automatically do this? Unless you have an auto-eq feature, I don’t see how this could be. Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding you.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

You mean in terms of level matching? How do receivers automatically do this? Unless you have an auto-eq feature, I don’t see how this could be. Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding you.

No, you're understanding fine ... I mean the auto calibration, since most receivers now have it in one form or another. Even without it I wouldn't worry, just get your levels and distance set right with maybe tone adjustments to taste.

 

[gus6464]

No, you're understanding fine ... I mean the auto calibration, since most receivers now have it in one form or another.

The YPAO on my Yamaha receiver straight sucks big time. I ended up manually calibrating everything myself. My friend has a Denon with Audyssey and it's so much better.

 

[ErinH]

No, you're understanding fine ... I mean the auto calibration, since most receivers now have it in one form or another. Even without it I wouldn't worry, just get your levels and distance set right with maybe tone adjustments to taste.

Okay, thanks.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

BTW, absolutely nothing wrong with choosing ScanSpeak drivers! I have about $10K worth of Scan drivers in the house right now for various designs I'm developing. The only driver I've found that delivers the Scan sound with no drawbacks and even slightly less coloration is the Usher 8948a, it's a winner for less than 1/2 the price of a 18w.

 

[gus6464]

I'll be building a home in the next year or two and I'm starting to plan out the media center already. I’ve got a friend who does home audio stuff on the side (amazing work, btw). He can get Scanspeak drivers at cost for me, which saves me about 40% off MSRP. I’m a huge fan of scanspeak drivers. I’ve listened to Dyn, Audio Technology, Seas, Vifa, and Dayton raw driver DIY setups before and I prefer the Scanspeak ‘sound’ to all of them; even the uncolored Dyns.

Having said all that (basically just letting those who are bound to say ‘you can do better for the money’ know that I’m set on Scan), my real question is the integration of Scans in the front (L/C/R) and using my Aperion bookshelf speakers as the surrounds. I realize that surrounds really aren’t as detrimental to the sound as the fronts are, but I still have some pause about doing this. Do you guys think it’d be alright?... will there be any ‘gaps’ so to speak, with the response?

If so, is it enough to warrant spending a few hundred more on matching drivers for the surrounds?

What tweeter you going to use?

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker options

The Aperions should work fine for surrounds.

If you get such a good deal on the drivers, you might just make some enclosures as a DIY project or get some off the shelf (parts express?) and use scanspeak for the surrounds also.

 

[ErinH]

What tweeter you going to use?

I think it's this:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1738

He has all the designs. I know the fronts use 2 18w's. Seriously, the stuff he makes sounds friggin' awesome. I'm pretty much giving him a budget and saying 'go'.

The Aperions should work fine for surrounds.

If you get such a good deal on the drivers, you might just make some enclosures as a DIY project or get some off the shelf (parts express?) and use scanspeak for the surrounds also.

I'll have to see where my budget is after the fronts. I've giving him an idea, and we'll see what I can get done with it.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

I think it's this:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1738

He has all the designs. I know the fronts use 2 18w's. Seriously, the stuff he makes sounds friggin' awesome. I'm pretty much giving him a budget and saying 'go'.

I'll have to see where my budget is after the fronts. I've giving him an idea, and we'll see what I can get done with it.

Excellent choice, the AirCirc and a 18W is pretty much a no-brainer. They're easy to implement and will produce excellent results even with a sub-optimal network.

Since you're having someone you know build these, ask if he's generating Hilbert Transform minimum phase measurements and exact acoustic centers. If he is and can expound on his technique for doing so, you're probably in good shape. If not, then you can bet his crossover isn't as good as it could be ... which even if so could still produce excellent results, just that it could be better.

 

[R-Carpenter]

BTW, absolutely nothing wrong with choosing ScanSpeak drivers! I have about $10K worth of Scan drivers in the house right now for various designs I'm developing. The only driver I've found that delivers the Scan sound with no drawbacks and even slightly less coloration is the Usher 8948a, it's a winner for less than 1/2 the price of a 18w.

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I'd say 8945P and 8945A are also up there with the SS. I actually like 8945P more then 18w/8535 which was used in Pro Ac 2.5 clones (which I've made a long time ago).
I'd say go for Usher unless you are hell bend on SS.
Haven't tested Revelator drivers yet but have 2 projects coming up and dying to try them.

 

[gus6464]

Excellent choice, the AirCirc and a 18W is pretty much a no-brainer. They're easy to implement and will produce excellent results even with a sub-optimal network.

Since you're having someone you know build these, ask if he's generating Hilbert Transform minimum phase measurements and exact acoustic centers. If he is and can expound on his technique for doing so, you're probably in good shape. If not, then you can bet his crossover isn't as good as it could be ... which even if so could still produce excellent results, just that it could be better.

Would an active crossover perform better?

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

I'd say 8945P and 8945A are also up there with the SS. I actually like 8945P more then 18w/8535 which was used in Pro Ac 2.5 clones (which I've made a long time ago).
I'd say go for Usher unless you are hell bend on SS.
Haven't tested Revelator drivers yet but have 2 projects coming up and dying to try them.

I made the mistake in my prior post of assuming that the OP was planning on the sliced paper 18w. If not, if he's planning on the bumpy paper/carbon SS 8535, then yes the Usher bumpy paper/carbon woofers are every bit as good if not better. I have a closet full of 8945P's and they are excellent. However if he's talking about the sliced paper 18w, then the 8535 and equivalent Usher's are definately more colored. But Usher has the 8948A which IMO is very strong competition to the sliced paper 18w's.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Would an active crossover perform better?

Ha, that's a loaded question Either way, it all hinges on proper measurements and modeling.

 

[R-Carpenter]

Could you possibly post FR and Distortion of 8945A? From your post, I am assuming that you have a full measurement set up such as Clio or Praxis or Sound Easy. If 8945A is really that good it could offer a nice alternative to “sliced paper” for half price.
Thanks, Bldr.

Active or passive is a big big question. Depends mostly on your friends capabilities. As a very general statement: active is dependable of individual drivers impedance, has higher dynamic capabilities and resolution. I haven't seen active setups used on relatively simple (such as 2 or 3 way ) speakers, however in the multi driver speakers (such as 5 way ) active x-overs are know to be superior.

 

[ErinH]

I made the mistake in my prior post of assuming that the OP was planning on the sliced paper 18w. If not, if he's planning on the bumpy paper/carbon SS 8535, then yes the Usher bumpy paper/carbon woofers are every bit as good if not better. I have a closet full of 8945P's and they are excellent. However if he's talking about the sliced paper 18w, then the 8535 and equivalent Usher's are definately more colored. But Usher has the 8948A which IMO is very strong competition to the sliced paper 18w's.

It's the slice-coned version.




As for the x-over, I"ll have to ask. I personally was considering going with some sort of active processing as it's what I use in my car and really enjoy it. However, the need for this may not be there in a home setup... at least not as badly as I need it in the car to take care of the stupid environment.

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

Could you possibly post FR and Distortion of 8945A? From your post, I am assuming that you have a full measurement set up such as Clio or Praxis or Sound Easy. If 8945A is really that good it could offer a nice alternative to “sliced paper” for half price.
Thanks, Bldr.

8948a ... I can get something posted up in a few days

 

[Spkr_Bldr]

It's the slice-coned version.

Good, they're fantastic drivers!

As for the x-over, I"ll have to ask. I personally was considering going with some sort of active processing as it's what I use in my car and really enjoy it. However, the need for this may not be there in a home setup... at least not as badly as I need it in the car to take care of the stupid environment.

Pose that earlier question of mine to him. If he doesn't know what you're talking about, then he'll probably be intrigued and want to take the time to research, which would be good for both of you Knowing the specifics of measuring Hilbert generated min phase, and absolute acoustic centers, and how to use that data for your crossover optimizing is the only way to create transient perfect or time coherent crossovers. But I made some pretty amazing sounds speakers before I had any clue, it's just that after I learned I realized that those designs could have been improved.

Unless you have all the measurement gear and expertise to use and intrepret it, don't mess with an active home system of your design. All the same design skills are required for active or passive - except soldering

 

[ErinH]

Well, I've got a laptop based RTA system... but that's the extent of my 'tools' go for measuring.

Passive may just be the way I go. I don't know if I can justify a pre-amp/processor in addition to an amp when so many receivers can do auto-eq anyway. We'll see.