Mixing amps for LCR - bad idea?

[everettT]

Now you’ve got me worried about the input sensitivity.. The Nord amps appear to have a max input sensitivity of 2.35V rms, with a gain of 26.8dB
The Denon has an output sensitivity of 1V nominal, 2V max
I’ve been considering the Arcam AVR’s (for Dirac) which have an output sensitivity of 1V nominal, 5V max

Would either of these be mismatched with the Nord?
I’m still trying to make sense of the 5V max in the Arcam’s- feels like quite a bit of gain for the preouts. What does that imply?

I'd

Now you’ve got me worried about the input sensitivity.. The Nord amps appear to have a max input sensitivity of 2.35V rms, with a gain of 26.8dB
The Denon has an output sensitivity of 1V nominal, 2V max
I’ve been considering the Arcam AVR’s (for Dirac) which have an output sensitivity of 1V nominal, 5V max

Would either of these be mismatched with the Nord?
I’m still trying to make sense of the 5V max in the Arcam’s- feels like quite a bit of gain for the preouts. What does that imply?

I'd find a way to get specs and form factor to work if it were me FWIW

 

[thebrieze]

I just noticed the somewhat low sensitivity on the amp, but many Denons have been measured at more than 2V too (altho a question of clipping has come up at higher levels in some cases).....was your model measured for a max of 2V? Some pre outs can be higher than 5V.....

I mentioned the 2V max of the Denon based off an audioholics review of a different Denon model (think it was the 3300) that indicated clipping after 2V. This is from memory, so I could be wrong.

My interpretation (based on limited understanding of the subject) is that..

If the preamp max (2V) is less than the amp max (2.35V), you are essentially giving up some of the amps watts, since the preamp would clip. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue for a high powered amp, and the difference isn’t much

If the preamp max (5V) is more than the amp max (2.35V), you are giving up about 6dB of preamp gain, since the amp would now clip
- is this accurate? What about the noise floor?

 

[PENG]

I mentioned the 2V max of the Denon based off an audioholics review of a different Denon model (think it was the 3300) that indicated clipping after 2V. This is from memory, so I could be wrong.

You remember wrong then, it was 4.5 V not 2 V.

In the 3300 review, Gene said:

"One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power. Yamaha please pay attention and step your game up particularly with your AV receivers in this price range that clip above 1.6Vrms. "

May be you got it mixed up with the RX-A860 that started to clip at 1.6 V.

Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

The Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X networking AV receiver features the latest in HD audio and video processing, music streaming and offers future expandability with solid preamp outputs.

www.audioholics.com

 

[lovinthehd]

I mentioned the 2V max of the Denon based off an audioholics review of a different Denon model (think it was the 3300) that indicated clipping after 2V. This is from memory, so I could be wrong.

My interpretation (based on limited understanding of the subject) is that..

If the preamp max (2V) is less than the amp max (2.35V), you are essentially giving up some of the amps watts, since the preamp would clip. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue for a high powered amp, and the difference isn’t much

If the preamp max (5V) is more than the amp max (2.35V), you are giving up about 6dB of preamp gain, since the amp would now clip
- is this accurate? What about the noise floor?

Peng already covered the 3300 and Denon in general I think. Altho the ASR test of the 3500 wasn't stellar but this is Amir comparing to standalone dac units, too.

Yes, if you can't provide sufficient voltage for max use of the amp you'd be giving up something. You wouldn't necessarily clip with a higher max unless you set it up that way (hopefully you can adjust gain in both units to match them well).

 

[thebrieze]

You remember wrong then, it was 4.5 V not 2 V.

In the 3300 review, Gene said:

"One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power. Yamaha please pay attention and step your game up particularly with your AV receivers in this price range that clip above 1.6Vrms. "

May be you got it mixed up with the RX-A860 that started to clip at 1.6 V.

Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

The Denon AVR-X3300W 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X networking AV receiver features the latest in HD audio and video processing, music streaming and offers future expandability with solid preamp outputs.

www.audioholics.com

Thanks for the correction and link to the review. It was this sentence that stayed with me. Although that’s not the same as clipping.
“At 2Vrms, things got a little grainer with odd order harmonics dominating”

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the correction and link to the review. It was this sentence that stayed with me. Although that’s not the same as clipping.
“At 2Vrms, things got a little grainer with odd order harmonics dominating”

Yes that may be acceptable but not that great, and I guess it would be around 0.05% at that level (2V). Clipping is typically defined as at about 1% THD by the likes of S&V and Stereophile.

The X3600H and higher models would likely do much better if the front left and right channels power amps are disconnected using the amp assign trick.