Mirage S10 vs SVS PB 10

[Johnny Canuck]

Thanks warpdrive....

so I can get the PSB 6i for $750 canadian now. Changes things a little. i like what you said that the PSB plays tighter and louder, which i assume would be better for music...i am 75% music, maybe more.

Can you please provide me with some links to reviews on this PSB 6i? Thanks. I have done a search on Google and din't see much...For some reason my computer won't let me read Pdf files...I get this "windows installer" box coming up and i have to restart every time to stop it. I tried a new version of Acrobat reader, no luck..I think i deleted a Windows file i shouldn't have.

 

[shokhead]

Try cnet for reviews.

 

[warpdrive]

I didn't save any links besides the S&V vision one but I hang around avsforum and hometheaterforum a lot, and there was praise for that sub in the past. My friend who has a really nice sub (very high end Velodyne) was very impressed with the 6i when we went to hear it.
The S&V measurements shows that the 6i had the best frequency uniformity among all the subs tested including the LFM-1 (STF-3 inspired)

Either way, Hsu or 6i, they should be both awesome. Can't really lose.

 

[golfhack]

"If i suggest a SVS cylinder sub,i'm afraid someone will get pissed at me and call me a fanboy for SVS. HSU also has cylinder subs. Smaller footprint but taller."

Don't worry Shokhead, as a fellow brother of S&V (as well as here at audioholics), I for one won't feel that way. I've been following you on your journey in recent weeks towards buying your SVS. Congrats on your purchase, you tubehead you!!!

 

[annunaki]

The PSB 6i goes down to 29 Hz (-3dB) and the Velodyne SPL-800 II goes down to 28 Hz (-3dB). As for the 12" going deeper -- woofer size isn't everything. When you look behind the woofer, the Velodyne has a 204 oz magnet structure, whereas the PSB has a 53 oz magnet structure. Cone excursion is greater on the Velodyne, and the Velodyne is rated more than 4 TIMES the RMS power of the PSB. I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples with these two subs.
Greg

That does not mean squat (magnet size and power handling). I would hope the 8" has greater excursion if it is going to hit 28hz at any type of volume level. So the Velodyne goes 1hz lower? At what fundamental output level is the -3db taken from? If the PSB is -3db at 29hz with an output level of 115db and the Velodyne is -3db at 28 hz at 100db, which would you choose? See my point. The Velodyne is also a sealed enclosure where as the PSB is ported.

On average a 12" will play deeper than an 8" or 10". However, if a 12" is ported at 32hz, the 10" is ported at 28hz and the 8 " is sealed, without showing the average spl, the 8" may appear to have better performance.

 

[MDS]

For some reason my computer won't let me read Pdf files...I get this "windows installer" box coming up and i have to restart every time to stop it. I tried a new version of Acrobat reader, no luck..I think i deleted a Windows file i shouldn't have.

First make sure that .pdf files are associated with Acrobat reader (My Computer->Tools->Folder Options->File Types).

If the Windows Installer message you are getting says it needs a newer version of the installer, go ahead and let it install the new version - you'll need it anyway for any new software you install.

 

[shokhead]

"If i suggest a SVS cylinder sub,i'm afraid someone will get pissed at me and call me a fanboy for SVS. HSU also has cylinder subs. Smaller footprint but taller."

Don't worry Shokhead, as a fellow brother of S&V (as well as here at audioholics), I for one won't feel that way. I've been following you on your journey in recent weeks towards buying your SVS. Congrats on your purchase, you tubehead you!!!

Thanks,i'm getting it tomorrow. Also to add,i'm a big beliver that a sub starts at 12",anything smaller just doesnt do it for a decent sub,imo of course.

 

[slopoke]

Also to add,i'm a big beliver that a sub starts at 12",anything smaller just doesnt do it for a decent sub,imo of course.

You should really listen to a Mirage OM-200. Not to say you should buy one, they've got their problems, but to dispell that 12" thing. The OM-200 has two 8" drivers. (8" Yuck! That can't do real bass!) Right! That's what I thought too. And a 12" driver could never keep up with the quickness of those 2 8s.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

So I watched Pearl Harbour tonight and I think this PSB is overpowering the rest of my system. My current living room is small. I had to really turn the sub down to hear my fronts, Polk RT!I12's with a Denon 3805. The PSB 5i sounded like a nicer match...it's the 10". So now i am looking at the SVS PB10 as it's the best 10" I have seen reviewed.

 

[3db]

PSB Sub6i is a good little sub

The PSB Sub6i had the most uniform curve of the bunch and this takes into account max output. It was the least peakiest of all the subs and it easily beat the velodyne as the velodyne came across rather peaky. It means alot when one tries to integrate a sub with existing speakers and into a room. I'd rather scarifice a few Hz for uniformity any day.

That does not mean squat (magnet size and power handling). I would hope the 8" has greater excursion if it is going to hit 28hz at any type of volume level. So the Velodyne goes 1hz lower? At what fundamental output level is the -3db taken from? If the PSB is -3db at 29hz with an output level of 115db and the Velodyne is -3db at 28 hz at 100db, which would you choose? See my point. The Velodyne is also a sealed enclosure where as the PSB is ported.

On average a 12" will play deeper than an 8" or 10". However, if a 12" is ported at 32hz, the 10" is ported at 28hz and the 8 " is sealed, without showing the average spl, the 8" may appear to have better performance.

 

[3db]

Sounds like you haven't finsihed your homework

have you experimented with placement yet? Of all HT speakers, subs involve the most work in achieving good balanced response. Stick a sub in 1 corner and all you hear is boom. Placing somewhere else may make it sound enemic. What I suggest i sepxreiment with placement before making such a quick jusgment. Secondly, calibrate your HT system with a media containing 20Hz-20KHz test tones as well as white noisce and SPL meter. Without proper claibration and placement, even the pricey stuff can sound real bad

So I watched Pearl Harbour tonight and I think this PSB is overpowering the rest of my system. My current living room is small. I had to really turn the sub down to hear my fronts, Polk RT!I12's with a Denon 3805. The PSB 5i sounded like a nicer match...it's the 10". So now i am looking at the SVS PB10 as it's the best 10" I have seen reviewed.

 

[warpdrive]

I agree with 3db's post. You need to do more homework.

Before you blame the sub, check your placement first.

A sub's peakiness has EVERYTHING to do with your placement. If you place your sub in the wrong location, you might run into a situation where the bass can swing wildly from nearly no bass to twice as much bass for any given frequency. This is due to an effect called "modes".

You can't just stick a sub into one spot and call it a day. It could take many hours of experimentation to find the optimum location. Sometimes moving the sub a few feet has a night and day impact to the flatness of the bass.

If you bought the PB10, you'll run into the EXACT same problem.

If you can get PDF's working, and want to know the gory details, read this white paper on sub placement.
http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=1003

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Thanks guys. My brother came over and he heard the bass outside my door better than i heard it in my living room. This PSB seems great for music in my set up, but with movies, it just seems to drown out my fronts, rears and centre. I guess my thinking is a 10" might not be as deep or loud, as it seemed the PSB 5i I tried sounded great. However, the 5i was really working hard. Am i wrong in assuming going to a 10" will be a better fit? i won't give up on it yet. I'll work at it tonight, adjusting volume, moving it etc. it's not in a corner right now..that would be REALLY bad.

 

[warpdrive]

Am i wrong in assuming going to a 10" will be a better fit?

The PB10 plays just as deep (actually deeper) and just as loud as the 6i since it doesn't roll off as quickly below 25Hz

So you're going to run into the same problem. Maybe even worse because the PB10's extra deep bass may cause even stronger bass modes to show itself in your room.

If your brother could hear the bass outside better, then you definitely have a placement problem. You are sitting in a void area of bass caused by room nulls.

If you don't want all that bass, then get the 5i, but the PB10 is a loud, very deep sub.

 

[shokhead]

Didnt i read that you should put the sub where you sit and crawl around to see where its the best place to put the sub?

 

[annunaki]

That is actually a good, inexpensive, if not cumbersome , way to achieve good sub bass response. It does indeed work quite well.