Minidsp Before or After Audyssey XT 32 Sub EQ

fabiocz

fabiocz

Audioholic
I recently bought a 2x4 hd minidsp but it still hasn't arrived, yet I'm already playing with the software rew.

I would like your opinion as to why one of the company's managers recommended applying eq after audyssey and not before how many people on youtube are doing ?

Rew filters are too high db or are in a safe range ?

Denon 4500h + 2 svs sb 3000 equal distance / Master Vol = -19 / Cross 80 and 90hz / LFE 120hz / Measured with mains + Audyssey on

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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I recently bought a 2x4 hd minidsp but it still hasn't arrived, yet I'm already playing with the software rew.

I would like your opinion as to why one of the company's managers recommended applying eq after audyssey and not before how many people on youtube are doing ?

Denon 4500h + 2 svs sb 3000 equal distance / Master Vol = -19 / Cross 80 and 90hz / LFE 120hz / Measured with mains

View attachment 38070

View attachment 38071
The answer you got in that post says it. I've tried the mini pre Audyssey and found that in some cases Audyssey will introduce more issues and you have to go back and tweak everything with the mini again anyway. Getting your speakers set up to work with your room before running Audyssey is way more effective.
 
P

ParisB

Junior Audioholic
Ultimately it doesn't matter but which way you go depends what you want to do.

It's usually better to do the more powerful tweaking (subwoofers only) with minidsp to manually align your subs and optimize their combined summation, and use filters and REW EQ to flatten your bass.

Audyssey works best as icing on the cake and does full range correction, and XT32 is good at that.

If you want your own house curve, and you did it within minidsp, then you can use the Audyssey app to disable correction in the subwoofer region. Alternatively if you kept bass flat, you can use post cal tweaks such as DEQ or tone controls etc..
 
fabiocz

fabiocz

Audioholic
Ultimately it doesn't matter but which way you go depends what you want to do.
It's usually better to do the more powerful tweaking (subwoofers only) with minidsp to manually align your subs and optimize their combined summation, and use filters and REW EQ to flatten your bass.
Audyssey works best as icing on the cake and does full range correction, and XT32 is good at that.
If you want your own house curve, and you did it within minidsp, then you can use the Audyssey app to disable correction in the subwoofer region. Alternatively if you kept bass flat, you can use post cal tweaks such as DEQ or tone controls etc..
I would like to use the 2 resources (Audyssey + Minidsp), I made a sketch of the house curve that the audyssey had applied and tried to keep it in Rew, because I liked the result of the audyssey, however, I didn't get to test how the final result was because the minidsp has not arrived yet.

Many youtube users are using minidsp before, to align the subs, but I'm wondering in my case that I have the subs at exactly the same distance / same model and I have the Denon 4500 Sub EQ, would there be a need for that?

The answer you got in that post says it. I've tried the mini pre Audyssey and found that in some cases Audyssey will introduce more issues and you have to go back and tweak everything with the mini again anyway. Getting your speakers set up to work with your room before running Audyssey is way more effective.
Exactly what I had in mind, I already measured the left sub then the right sub and then both, apparently they are adding up without applied distance, with that I believe the best way should the minidsp after the audyssey.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I would like to use the 2 resources (Audyssey + Minidsp), I made a sketch of the house curve that the audyssey had applied and tried to keep it in Rew, because I liked the result of the audyssey, however, I didn't get to test how the final result was because the minidsp has not arrived yet.

Many youtube users are using minidsp before, to align the subs, but I'm wondering in my case that I have the subs at exactly the same distance / same model and I have the Denon 4500 Sub EQ, would there be a need for that?



Exactly what I had in mind, I already measured the left sub then the right sub and then both, apparently they are adding up without applied distance, with that I believe the best way should the minidsp after the audyssey.
Audyssey does a great job with distance, delay and trim levels for me. It doesn't do a bad job with fr either, once I found the ideal distance for my mlp. Took a lot of measuring before eq to figure it out but it was worth it. I let it do its thing first then tweak with the mini after. I've got some great results right now. I only use ratbuddyssey for my main speakers for fr above 80 hz. The mini is plenty for my subs. I'd use one or the other there. Mini is a lot quicker and easier so I've kept it in the mix.

There's a sweet spot in my room for best bass response and that's about 14.5' from the front stage. I was a little over 15' before, so 6" closer made an impact. Enough for Audyssey to do a pretty bang up job by itself. I scooted back and forth quite a bit, taking measurements after each scoot to find the smoothest possible response before running any eq. I gained back a few dB of a null which translated into an improved Audyssey cal, which made tweaking with the mini and rb a breeze.

06-22-20 multeq only.jpg


That is MultEQ XT32 by itself, before doing anything with the mini. That's WAY better than what it was doing with my mlp at 15' instead of 14.5'. A little gain with positional eq snowballed into a big improvement after running room correction.

*Edit: Below are sets of sweeps I did after all of my tweaking. Everything is labeled so you can see the effects of DEQ on a flat fr. Like I said, I just use DEQ and RLO for my house curve instead of building one. EQ 1 and EQ 2 are preset DSP profiles on my subs (HSU VTF -3 MK5) I can flip between for either deeper extension or more output in the audible range.

06-22-20 final fr.jpg
06-22-20 house curve.jpg
06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ1.jpg
06-22-20 DEQ RLO EQ2.jpg
 
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ParisB

Junior Audioholic
I would like to use the 2 resources (Audyssey + Minidsp), I made a sketch of the house curve that the audyssey had applied and tried to keep it in Rew, because I liked the result of the audyssey, however, I didn't get to test how the final result was because the minidsp has not arrived yet.

Many youtube users are using minidsp before, to align the subs, but I'm wondering in my case that I have the subs at exactly the same distance / same model and I have the Denon 4500 Sub EQ, would there be a need for that?



Exactly what I had in mind, I already measured the left sub then the right sub and then both, apparently they are adding up without applied distance, with that I believe the best way should the minidsp after the audyssey.
There's no wrong or right way. Both can get you the same results.

I tried both. I have XT32 and dual subs placed equally distant in the front. I got better results doing the manual adjustments first and using a "virtual" sub so Audyssey sees it as one. It had an easier job flattening that.

I ft that tweaking the delays between the subs first, manually, gave me a better combined response than Audyssey.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
There's no wrong or right way. Both can get you the same results.

I tried both. I have XT32 and dual subs placed equally distant in the front. I got better results doing the manual adjustments first and using a "virtual" sub so Audyssey sees it as one. It had an easier job flattening that.

I ft that tweaking the delays between the subs first, manually, gave me a better combined response than Audyssey.
Yeah, my experience was the opposite, lol.
 
P

ParisB

Junior Audioholic
Yeah, my experience was the opposite, lol.
For clarification, to me it just felt more intuitive, but it was the same end result really in the grand scheme.

Whether you let Audyssey do the grunt work and then you apply finishing touches, or vice versa...either way it's good to have tools.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
For clarification, to me it just felt more intuitive, but it was the same end result really in the grand scheme.

Whether you let Audyssey do the grunt work and then you apply finishing touches, or vice versa...either way it's good to have tools.
Yeah I'll bet we both arrived close to the same end. In my room, after moving stuff around to find the best spot, I found Audyssey did a really good job by itself, as you can see in that first graph I posted. I've had Audyssey take what the mini did and make it worse so I don't do that first step anymore. I have an old 30 page thread here somewhere all about it. It's when I was first learning REW and I tried a bunch of different things. In the end, simpler was better for me, in my room.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
The minidsp before Audyssey was the way I went as was the general suggestion, never tried it the other way. It may depend how many subs and their placement (and the room) as to how much more helpful the minidsp might be. Too bad no avr manufacturer ever implemented the 4-sub capabilities of Audyssey. I think XT32 does a pretty good job on its own and with two non-equidistant subs could well suffice for many. Good luck in your setup!
 
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ParisB

Junior Audioholic
But if i apply 10 filters on "In" and more 10 in "Out" is possible ?
Or 10 filters on "In" and peq on "Out" ?
I've never tried it so I can't answer, just that the guides I've seen were recommending "out". I'm not sure why it would really matter though.

Sorry
 
fabiocz

fabiocz

Audioholic
I've never tried it so I can't answer, just that the guides I've seen were recommending "out". I'm not sure why it would really matter though.
Sorry
No problem. I will try both when i receive the minidsp.
I think can use 10 in and more 10 on out hahaha will be great
 

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