lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks, forgot to give him the duly deserved credit!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
No it does not have atmos it's 17 years old. I bought it brand new and it's been sitting for a while. I still have the polk speakers that I bought with it. It is 5.1 dolby digital dts and re EQ. It has a button for A and B speakers on the front and you can have them both on at the same time. I never used them and thought that they were for more frontal effect.
A and B speakers really aren't meant to be run in the same room, but if it sounds good to you....but watch total impedance load.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
One way to simplify might be to use the HD version. It has RCA connectors at input and output, and a maximum output voltage of 2.0 Volts RMS. That's plenty for just about any amplifier, consumer or pro. An added benefit is its much larger delay adjustment range. The non-HD 2x4 units have a maximum delay of 7.5 msec when the 4-way advanced plugin is used, and 7.2 msec max with the 2x4 advanced plugin. The HD version claims up to 80 msec delay. Converting this into feet, we get:

7.5 msec: 8.45 feet
7.2 msec: 8.11 feet
80 msec: 90.08 feet

These numbers are obtained by multiplying the delay in msec by the speed of sound, which is 1.126 feet/msec. The distance should be interpreted as the difference in distance between the most and least distant subs at the MLP. So if you had a near-field sub right behind your couch, and a sub in front 12 feet away, you'd run out of delay compensation range with the non-HD versions.

Unfortunately, the HD version is a lot more expensive, at $205 in the US.
Andy, the HD does look like a viable option for me. However, there is some concern in that the HD has a different processor and the sampling rate is 96 as opposed to 48 on the balanced miniDSP. Not sure if any of that is significant or not, but from what I understand there are a lot of unknowns regarding the HD version. Been trying to find out the input sensitivity on the SVS SB12-NSD w/o any luck. Guess, I will just have to contact SVS to find out. You have any reservations w/the HD version?

Cheers,

Phil
 
A

andy_c

Audioholic
Andy, the HD does look like a viable option for me. However, there is some concern in that the HD has a different processor and the sampling rate is 96 as opposed to 48 on the balanced miniDSP. Not sure if any of that is significant or not, but from what I understand there are a lot of unknowns regarding the HD version. Been trying to find out the input sensitivity on the SVS SB12-NSD w/o any luck. Guess, I will just have to contact SVS to find out. You have any reservations w/the HD version?
Here's the history of the sample rate issue. In this thread, the problem with high sampling rates was identified. This was with the 2x8 unit, which has a fixed-point processor and was using a plugin having a 96 kHz sample rate. With IIR filters, the higher the sample rate, the greater the potential inaccuracy of the filter response at very low frequencies. This is due to precision considerations in the filter coefficients internal to the DSP chip. In general, with all else equal, floating-point arithmetic has the potential to work better than fixed-point. On one hand, the 96 kHz sample rate of the HD version makes the potential for low-frequency problems greater than the non-HD 2x4 units. On the other hand, the use of 32-bit floating-point processing in the HD makes the potential for low-frequency problems less. The actual behavior at low frequencies of the HD units hasn't been published.

This potential problem can come into play when using e.g. monster low-tuned subs, where you might protect them from excessive driver excursion below the tuning frequency by applying a high-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of around 15 Hz. I spoke to a miniDSP tech via email about this and told him I'd like to see data of the HD unit taken at the analog outputs using a fourth-order Butterworth high-pass filter with a 15 Hz cutoff frequency. We'll see if they do it.

Regarding the original problem reported in the post linked above, miniDSP used a 48 kHz plugin and declared the problem fixed. The response of the original poster to this claim can be found here.

In the final analysis, I can neither recommend nor recommend against any of the 2x4 units. If I were to see data of the 2x4 HD at low frequencies using a suitable filter and the data looked good, that's what I'd recommend. Sorry I can't be more specific.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Here's the history of the sample rate issue. In this thread, the problem with high sampling rates was identified. This was with the 2x8 unit, which has a fixed-point processor and was using a plugin having a 96 kHz sample rate. With IIR filters, the higher the sample rate, the greater the potential inaccuracy of the filter response at very low frequencies. This is due to precision considerations in the filter coefficients internal to the DSP chip. In general, with all else equal, floating-point arithmetic has the potential to work better than fixed-point. On one hand, the 96 kHz sample rate of the HD version makes the potential for low-frequency problems greater than the non-HD 2x4 units. On the other hand, the use of 32-bit floating-point processing in the HD makes the potential for low-frequency problems less. The actual behavior at low frequencies of the HD units hasn't been published.

This potential problem can come into play when using e.g. monster low-tuned subs, where you might protect them from excessive driver excursion below the tuning frequency by applying a high-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of around 15 Hz. I spoke to a miniDSP tech via email about this and told him I'd like to see data of the HD unit taken at the analog outputs using a fourth-order Butterworth high-pass filter with a 15 Hz cutoff frequency. We'll see if they do it.

Regarding the original problem reported in the post linked above, miniDSP used a 48 kHz plugin and declared the problem fixed. The response of the original poster to this claim can be found here.

In the final analysis, I can neither recommend nor recommend against any of the 2x4 units. If I were to see data of the 2x4 HD at low frequencies using a suitable filter and the data looked good, that's what I'd recommend. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Andy I think that you summed it up well. Appreciate all of this info. But, I think that it is best for me to stay away from the balanced miniDSP. The basic miniDSP may be enough for my SB12-NSD's. Will be contacting SVS and inquiring what the input sensitivity is on the 400 w rms Sledge amp. The .9 v rms may be enough. If not, then I guess I will opt for the HD version then instead. Once again thanks for the info!

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
After more careful thought I think that I will wait on ordering a miniDSP at this time. Will go ahead and order a CSL UMiK 1 tomorrow though. Already have REW downloaded so I am headed in the right direction. Once I get around to taking some measurements and moving things around some will give me a better idea of which miniDSP to order. Will also do more research in that regard as well. Thanks to both Andy and Chris for all of your help! It is most appreciated.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
SVS recommends that I go with the miniDSP HD due to clipping issues. The balanced probably would also work, but just do not want to deal w/the phoenix connections. As such, may be ordering very soon.

Cheers,

Phil
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
Well Speakerman39, I don't know if you ended up ordering a miniDSP after all this but I just placed my order for the 2x4 HD. I tried contacting the Canadian dealer and even miniDSP themselves for a recommendation (HD or non) based on my application without much success; so I will just figure it out on my own.

I will come back with some results/feedback soon.
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
I wanted to update my situation with a note that miniDSP has now responded recommending the 2x4 HD for the increased input/output voltage limits.

This makes sense as I feel it would be easier to deal with a sampling issue than a clipping or over voltage issue; making the 2x4 HD a safer bet over the standard 2x4.

Either way, stay tuned for results; it arrives today.
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
Here are my preliminary results from the addition of a miniDSP 2x4 HD into my system.

Relevent System Equipment:
Anthem MRX 710 AVR
Energy ESW-V8
Energy ESW-V10

I was going to write all sorts of things but figured I would just post a graph and let it speak for itself.
miniDSP.jpg


Used REW for all filter calculations and Umik-1 for measurements. Anthem's ARC room correction was NOT enabled for either measurement.

I applied filters to each sub individually and then applied another layer of global filters on top of those. No boosting, only attenuation. 80 dB target, 25 dB LF cutoff, and 160 Hz crossover.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Here are my preliminary results from the addition of a miniDSP 2x4 HD into my system.

Relevent System Equipment:
Anthem MRX 710 AVR
Energy ESW-V8
Energy ESW-V10

I was going to write all sorts of things but figured I would just post a graph and let it speak for itself.
View attachment 20037

Used REW for all filter calculations and Umik-1 for measurements. Anthem's ARC room correction was NOT enabled for either measurement.

I applied filters to each sub individually and then applied another layer of global filters on top of those. No boosting, only attenuation. 80 dB target, 25 dB LF cutoff, and 160 Hz crossover.
Good golly man get some real subs! :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Nice job but don't like that 10dB suckout at 28ish hz
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
The dip is a room mode as it only appears in that listening position, still working out what I can move to sort it out.

I had my finger on the submit order button for 2 SVS PB-2000s but then decided that there was a lot I needed to learn about this hobby before I ordered new gear. I think people are far too quick to just dump money on high end gear that they don't understand or know how to make proper use of.

I'm still going to get new subs, but I am exploring the world of isolation, EQ, and acoustics first so that when I do order new gear, I will be able to make use of it properly.

Thanks for the feedback though.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The dip is a room mode as it only appears in that listening position, still working out what I can move to sort it out.

I had my finger on the submit order button for 2 SVS PB-2000s but then decided that there was a lot I needed to learn about this hobby before I ordered new gear. I think people are far too quick to just dump money on high end gear that they don't understand or know how to make proper use of.

I'm still going to get new subs, but I am exploring the world of isolation, EQ, and acoustics first so that when I do order new gear, I will be able to make use of it properly.

Thanks for the feedback though.
Sounds like a diy project to me....
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Wow. Graph looks nice. That dip looks pretty narrow, doubt if you'd notice while listening. 160hz is surprising, but if it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
Wow. Graph looks nice. That dip looks pretty narrow, doubt if you'd notice while listening. 160hz is surprising, but if it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I suppose I should explain the 160 Hz. My speakers are quite small, not 160 Hz crossover small, but more the 100 Hz point. I used 160 Hz as a starting point to leave the final crossover work to the AVR. Going to run ARC tonight and see what additional corrections it may provide.

My FL and FR response above 200 Hz is horrendous, so much so that I wouldn't dare post a graph of it for fear of being run outta town but my plan is to work my way up through the frequency band correcting as I go.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I see. When you run the sweep of your LR, go into "graph" and try 1/6 smoothing. IIRC, that's about the octave resolution that humans hear at. That should straighten out your graph into something you can make sense of. I'm guessing it looks like I kid scribbling with a pencil?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PoutineHIFI

Enthusiast
Unsmoothed, it does look like a kid scribbling with a pencil but the kid is also riding a rabid badger through the opening beach scene of Saving Private Ryan.

1/6 definitely does make things a little easier to digest. Now that the sub 200 Hz area is within an acceptable range (without buying new subs) I am going to start on investigating SBIR effects in the 200-500 Hz range.
 
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