Mid level Integrated Amp

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Imo, integrated amps are relatively poor values yet people (even some experts) believe they, as a rule, "sound" better than receivers, when you and I know that is false. I use my one and only for my desk top system, only because it suit that purpose. You probably noticed that I have used the term you invented, "avr derived" a few times, to describe the Yamaha A-S series low cost integrated amps, first after I read the service manual eargiant posted a while back. Those are practically over priced because of the availability of the deeply discounted cousins (AVRs),but for people who insists on "form follows function", they are the affordable alternatives.
Well, we can just speak the "truth", but some people just "can't handle the truth" (as Jack Nicholson would say :D).

 
B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
OK... but the electronics don't have a 'sound'. Good quality recievers, amps, etc are all supposed to process signal without changing it. They don't add coloration, flavor, or smells... they are designed to preserve the source signal.
The only thing that is going to affect the sound are the transducers: your speakers. And yes, this includes members here saying that they couldn't hear the difference between expensive external DACs vs what came stock in their AVRs or Processors.
I listened to the speakers I bought on a First Watt Amp and a $2400 DAC. I didn't buy those so I could enjoy my speakers when I get them. I'm going to run them through my Marantz and some Outlaw 2200 Amps. And they will sound just as amazing as what I heard in my audition.

For Bluetooth, whether its internal or external, its still a link in the chain. I used a Rocketfish Bluetooth receiver for years... still have it... has analog and digital outs. Cost maybe $20-30. Works fine. I only use it now in a work room to listen to audible, pandora or apple music.
But you say you are worried about signal degradation and want to stream bluetooth over your phone. Sorry, but those two statements are at odds with each other. Your best signal would come over Ethernet direct from your router, then wifi, then bluetooth.

There are already a lot of product recommendations here. I won't try adding to them. But the features, ergonomics, and style are things that only you can determine for yourself. If none of these work for you, then consider going back to the drawing board. Maybe a Stereo Preamp with full features and an External Amplifer would be better suited for your needs. Or an AVR. You don't need to get one with 13-channels, but the feature sets can be very well developed, including bluetooth and a phono stage, as well as good DACs, network connectivity, etc.

Cheers!
Thanks for the insight. That takes a lot of worry off my mind attempting to “pair” speakers with components.


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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
OK... but the electronics don't have a 'sound'. Good quality recievers, amps, etc are all supposed to process signal without changing it. They don't add coloration, flavor, or smells... they are designed to preserve the source signal.
The only thing that is going to affect the sound are the transducers: your speakers. And yes, this includes members here saying that they couldn't hear the difference between expensive external DACs vs what came stock in their AVRs or Processors.
I listened to the speakers I bought on a First Watt Amp and a $2400 DAC. I didn't buy those so I could enjoy my speakers when I get them. I'm going to run them through my Marantz and some Outlaw 2200 Amps. And they will sound just as amazing as what I heard in my audition.

For Bluetooth, whether its internal or external, its still a link in the chain. I used a Rocketfish Bluetooth receiver for years... still have it... has analog and digital outs. Cost maybe $20-30. Works fine. I only use it now in a work room to listen to audible, pandora or apple music.
But you say you are worried about signal degradation and want to stream bluetooth over your phone. Sorry, but those two statements are at odds with each other. Your best signal would come over Ethernet direct from your router, then wifi, then bluetooth.

There are already a lot of product recommendations here. I won't try adding to them. But the features, ergonomics, and style are things that only you can determine for yourself. If none of these work for you, then consider going back to the drawing board. Maybe a Stereo Preamp with full features and an External Amplifer would be better suited for your needs. Or an AVR. You don't need to get one with 13-channels, but the feature sets can be very well developed, including bluetooth and a phono stage, as well as good DACs, network connectivity, etc.

Cheers!
Good and straight to the point bottleneck analysis !
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Sweet! I've always enjoyed what I have heard from Peachtree. I wish they would have kept the tube in, but hey looky there - the amp is Class D!
And, as expected, a low end DAC onboard, 24b/96kHz capable only!! No problem really unless you have Golden ears (aside from the GE speakers obviously).:D:D
 
B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
Sweet! I've always enjoyed what I have heard from Peachtree. I wish they would have kept the tube in, but hey looky there - the amp is Class D!
I do wish there was an Ethernet connection, but I know streaming WiFi will be better than Bluetooth. I had planned on getting a couple of WiFi boosters anyway.


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John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Samurai
I do wish there was an Ethernet connection, but I know streaming WiFi will be better than Bluetooth. I had planned on getting a couple of WiFi boosters anyway.


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Good deal! Yes, getting a router/booster is a good solution - I think you will like it!
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
I do wish there was an Ethernet connection, but I know streaming WiFi will be better than Bluetooth. I had planned on getting a couple of WiFi boosters anyway.
Signal = effective bandwidth.
Unless the bandwidth needs of your CODEC exceed your bandwidth, in which case you'll get breaks in the sound as it re-buffers, the signal itself isn't an issue.

Fully uncompressed, 2-channel, 44khz WAV files (CD-Redbook) is 1,411kbps.
Bluetooth has specific CODECs. I'm not aware that there's a standard for re-encoding over WiFi; so you'll be simply transmitting in whatever CODEC the streaming server send in. I'm guessing an MP3. That reduces your bandwidth need by (IIRC) about a factor of 5 (10 if we consider buffering)... so about 140kbps

My wireless connections are generally in the 600,000kpbs range; so even accounting for issues around shared spectrum and signal loss... well... it's really just not an issue.

I've not tested with, but have seen reported, that bluetooth CODECs may be poorly suited for HiFi; but WiFi from this decade has more than enough bandwidth for any realistic scenario (unless you just are too far to get signal)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Wifi is the only way I stream around the house. Only issues are with my stupid router but not much choice there (old DSL stuff).
 
B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
Signal = effective bandwidth.
Unless the bandwidth needs of your CODEC exceed your bandwidth, in which case you'll get breaks in the sound as it re-buffers, the signal itself isn't an issue.

Fully uncompressed, 2-channel, 44khz WAV files (CD-Redbook) is 1,411kbps.
Bluetooth has specific CODECs. I'm not aware that there's a standard for re-encoding over WiFi; so you'll be simply transmitting in whatever CODEC the streaming server send in. I'm guessing an MP3. That reduces your bandwidth need by (IIRC) about a factor of 5 (10 if we consider buffering)... so about 140kbps

My wireless connections are generally in the 600,000kpbs range; so even accounting for issues around shared spectrum and signal loss... well... it's really just not an issue.

I've not tested with, but have seen reported, that bluetooth CODECs may be poorly suited for HiFi; but WiFi from this decade has more than enough bandwidth for any realistic scenario (unless you just are too far to get signal)
The AVR in my living room has Airplay and also I can stream Tidal direct through the AVR. I have tried that compared to streaming Tidal from my phone via Airplay and the difference is noticeable.


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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
The AVR in my living room has Airplay and also I can stream Tidal direct through the AVR. I have tried that compared to streaming Tidal from my phone via Airplay and the difference is noticeable.
I'm not sure of what your point is. Those both connect to your AVR via the same method (WiFi) [unless your AVR is hard-wired to your switch). Further, the most restricted bandwidth would be your internet connection.

Tell me Tidal over WiFi and Tidal over UTP sound different and we would have something to discuss.
 

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