McIntosh MHT200

[ronrags]

Got that upgrade bug again.

I recently started a thread concerning a dedicated cd player and have mixed thoughts if I should. Currently I own the Outlaw 950/7100 combo, the Denon 2200 and the recently purchase JM labs 726v, 706v and 700cc. I also upgraded my speaker cables and interconnects to synergistic research.

My local dealer suggested a good preamp/amp may give better results than the dedicated cd player based on the equipment I currently own. So he suggested go with Anthem or a Arcam stack which is in the $4 - 6K range. I also visited another dealer who sold Krell and McIntosh. These stacks start around $10k which is more than I wanted to spend. He then suggested the Mac MHT200 integrated amp which is being closed out which I can buy at $5k.

I'm assuming the Mac is at the next level over the Anthem or Arcam as far as performance.

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments?

 

[highfihoney]

The Mcintosh MHT 200 is not an intergrated amplifier its a 200 wpc AVR Receiver,its a good unit & quality wise its way above Arcam or Outlaw but the price of $5k that your dealer quoted you is way out of whack,that price is a standard dealer out the door price,no deep discount at all.

Also if your main interest is 2 channel ,if you plan on spending $5k you can do much better within the Mcintosh line up over the HT 200,i would buy a used Mc252 250 wpc amplifier & a used c200 tube preamp,the used cost on Audiogon would be in the same price range & the performance & resale value would be much better.

Mcintosh Recievers do not command the same resale value as their 2 channel gear.

 

[ronrags]

Honeyhifi,

If you go to the McIntosh website, the MHT200 is an integrated home theater receiver with 8x140 wpc. The list price is $6900.

Anyway, what I'm concerned is the sound quality of this unit compared to other units in the $5k area whether it is integrated or a stack. I couldn't compare the Mc vs the Krell since they are playing through different speakers. It's not easy comparing preamp/amp setups as it is with speakers or other components. I'm just trying to get a consensus among fellow audiophiles. There isn't many reviews among higher end products.

I also have a question concerning signal-to-noise ratio. The Mc states only 92db while the Anthem AVM30 states 122db. I remember that that higher the number the more detail there is in lower passages.

 

[Adam]

ronrags, you're way out of my league on this. However, I'd just like to throw in a suggestion that you could ask the dealer to hook the amps up to the same speakers. Call me crazy, but if you're looking at spending $5k+ on an amp, it seems like the dealer should be more than happy to let you do a good comparison between different brands.

 

[Seth=L]

Speakers, acoustic treatments, and speaker placement are the main determinates in the SQ of a system. I am not sure how much your front speakers where, but I am assuming they weren't over $2000 for the pair. There is a pretty consistant ratio that should be kept when buying audio equipment, and that is 2/3 of the budget should go towards the speakers the remaining 1/3 goes for amplification, preamp, and cabling (and possibly room treatments). If you think more power is needed you may want to look at Emotiva's MPS-1, it has received favorable reviews, has good performance, power, and flexability.

 

[TRT]

Emotiva

Got that upgrade bug again.

I recently started a thread concerning a dedicated cd player and have mixed thoughts if I should. Currently I own the Outlaw 950/7100 combo, the Denon 2200 and the recently purchase JM labs 726v, 706v and 700cc. I also upgraded my speaker cables and interconnects to synergistic research.

My local dealer suggested a good preamp/amp may give better results than the dedicated cd player based on the equipment I currently own. So he suggested go with Anthem or a Arcam stack which is in the $4 - 6K range. I also visited another dealer who sold Krell and McIntosh. These stacks start around $10k which is more than I wanted to spend. He then suggested the Mac MHT200 integrated amp which is being closed out which I can buy at $5k.

I'm assuming the Mac is at the next level over the Anthem or Arcam as far as performance.

Does anyone have any suggestions or comments?

Save yourself some money and look at Emotiva.

 

[ronrags]

Seth,

I do not agree that the speakers make up 2/3 the price of the system. I do believe that all the components should be at the same level of quality and sound. The JM Labs 726v speakers I recently purchased do cost under $2k, but come with the same components as their more expensive line. I think a good pre/amp will bring the best out of a good quality speaker. I'm not talking about a $20k stack with $2k speakers, but I don't think a 7 channel $5k stack or integrated is unual.

The idea to upgrade was bring my components to another level and not sideways. I not sure the Emotiva system is better than the Outlaw stack I currently own. The old rule I remember was to jump at least 2 levels up to make a difference. If I can buy a stack at a lesser price and achieve a better sounding system I will. Unfortunately it is harder to compare amps than it is speakers or cd players.

The reason I started this thread was to get a concensus on the performance of the McIntosh vs others components around the same level.

 

[jcPanny]

Pre-pro upgrade

Even the outlaw 990 or Emotiva MPS-1 would be an upgrade over your current pre-pro. With the trial period from both companies, consider an in home demo.

If you are moving to 2 channel, read the AH review on the Emotiva 2 channel seperates which offer the Mac look for just over $1k. Also, many of the "audiophile" 2 channel types like tube pre-pros or integrated amps.

 

[ronrags]

Even the outlaw 990 or Emotiva MPS-1 would be an upgrade over your current pre-pro. With the trial period from both companies, consider an in home demo.

If you are moving to 2 channel, read the AH review on the Emotiva 2 channel seperates which offer the Mac look for just over $1k. Also, many of the "audiophile" 2 channel types like tube pre-pros or integrated amps.

I agree either 2 components would be an upgrade over my current stack, but I'm not sure how much. I thought to make a giant leap instead of upgrading a little at a time. I got some further info on the Mc MHT200 and found that the amp section is not at the same level as their separate amps. Mc actually discontinued this series so I decided not to buy the MHT200.

I still plan to upgrade to another multi channel system.

 

[highfihoney]

Honeyhifi,

If you go to the McIntosh website, the MHT200 is an integrated home theater receiver with 8x140 wpc. The list price is $6900.

Hi,im aware of the MSRP of the MHT units & the prices listed on the Mcintosh web site,a tip for you for dealing with Mcintosh dealers.

There are 3 types of Mcintosh dealers.

Type #1,sterotypical anal dealer who quotes MSRP as if it was gospel,refuses to budge an inch on price & claims he's not making much profit even at MSRP,these type dealers either cater to the ultra rich or sell very few units.

Type #2,these type dealers will offer 10% discounts off of MSRP & 15% to 20% off MSRP of discontinued items & act as if they are giving you the deal of a life time.

Type #3,these dealers deal in volume sales & do not treat every sale as the next big whale,they will start off discounting 30% off MSRP & depending on the dollar value of the sale will discount even deeper,many will offfer discontinued models or display models at dealer cost just to move them out of their inventory,discontinued models will sell at around 50% off MSRP & alot of times the dealer will eat the tax.

Trust me on this,the deal you were offered was a sucker deal & not a good deal at all,knocking 30% off a discontinued model is not a real deal,if your going to be going with hi end gear, unless you want to spend needlessly you need to learn to look past MSRP & treat your dealings with hi end dealers as a business transaction instead of a luxury purchase.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth,

I do not agree that the speakers make up 2/3 the price of the system. I do believe that all the components should be at the same level of quality and sound. The JM Labs 726v speakers I recently purchased do cost under $2k, but come with the same components as their more expensive line. I think a good pre/amp will bring the best out of a good quality speaker. I'm not talking about a $20k stack with $2k speakers, but I don't think a 7 channel $5k stack or integrated is unual.

The idea to upgrade was bring my components to another level and not sideways. I not sure the Emotiva system is better than the Outlaw stack I currently own. The old rule I remember was to jump at least 2 levels up to make a difference. If I can buy a stack at a lesser price and achieve a better sounding system I will. Unfortunately it is harder to compare amps than it is speakers or cd players.

The reason I started this thread was to get a concensus on the performance of the McIntosh vs others components around the same level.

The MPS-1 is a considerably better performer than the present setup. It is a transparent amplifier, as most amplifiers are and should not pollute the signal at all. It is more powerful and stable at 2 ohms.

Ask just about anyone here and you will get a similar responce, speakers should account for 2/3 of the budget. Half and half isn't going to improve your performance, and I am going to bet you that the MPS-1 is a considerably better performer than even the McIntosh receiver mentioned.

 

[ronrags]

Guys,


After much research, I decided not to purchase the MHT200 unit. I think Honeyhifi was right I was suckered into a discontinued product.

I decided to purchase the Anthem MCA50 amp and the Anthem AVM30 after much research on-line. I went to 2 dealers in my area and both thought Anthem was the way to go. I also called the JM Labs distributor and they also thought the Anthem was a great system. The MCA50 has separate transformers for each of the front channels and has balanced cable connections. I also got a great price from both dealers for 20 points off list.

Thanks for your feedback and opinions.

 

[Seth=L]

Anthem makes great amplifiers and processors.

I know you still probably aren't interested in Emotiva, but I will give it one last shot. The MPS-1 is completely modular, each channel has its own power supply. They are interchangeable and are capable of handling virtually any speaker system. The MPS-1 also has Balanced cable connections.

 

[Davemcc]

Guys,


After much research, I decided not to purchase the MHT200 unit. I think Honeyhifi was right I was suckered into a discontinued product.

I decided to purchase the Anthem MCA50 amp and the Anthem AVM30 after much research on-line. I went to 2 dealers in my area and both thought Anthem was the way to go. I also called the JM Labs distributor and they also thought the Anthem was a great system. The MCA50 has separate transformers for each of the front channels and has balanced cable connections. I also got a great price from both dealers for 20 points off list.

Thanks for your feedback and opinions.

I don't mean to complicate things, but I've been thinking of the Anthem equipment myself, more specifically the MCA50 and the AVM40. I found that the Rotel RMB-1095 would be a better choice than the MCA50. If you'll notice, Anthem fudges a little on its power specs for the MCA50 (there are threads here that discuss the issue) plus the Rotel is less expensive. You could get the Rotel 1095, have a better amp and use the cash savings to move into an Anthem AVM40 for it's better video processing ability.

 

[ronrags]

Anthem makes great amplifiers and processors.

I know you still probably aren't interested in Emotiva, but I will give it one last shot. The MPS-1 is completely modular, each channel has its own power supply. They are interchangeable and are capable of handling virtually any speaker system. The MPS-1 also has Balanced cable connections.

Seth,

I'm not too sure how Emotiva compares with the Anthem as far as SQ. Has anyone compared the Emotiva vs the Anthem? Emotiva sounds like a great deal, but will Emotiva still be in business a few years down the road if a repair is required?

 

[avaserfi]

Seth,

I'm not too sure how Emotiva compares with the Anthem as far as SQ. Has anyone compared the Emotiva vs the Anthem? Emotiva sounds like a great deal, but will Emotiva still be in business a few years down the road if a repair is required?

You should realize one things about amps: they do not affect sound quality. As long as the amp is sending enough power and the power is clean, neither of which will be a problem with any good amp, there will be no audible difference between any amp except the ones the real audiophiles hear i.e. placebo effects.

 

[ronrags]

I agree that a good quality amp will not make much of a difference especially at this level. If there is any difference it is probably so subtle. That brings us then to the pre-pro. I want to purchase a pre-pro that I can hear the most improvement over my Outlaw 950. As i stated previously, I think it is the most difficult component to make direct comparisons. I've purchased many pieces of equipment over the last 30 years, but always moved up 1 level at a time. I want to make this my last purchase for a long time so I don't mind spending the extra $.

 

[indcrimdefense]

ron-

what from a quick glance at the posts no one has mentioned is to ask for an in home demo of one or more of the components your looking at. hifi honey is also right about dealers, any dealer who not discussing at least 25% or more off of msrp is trying to take you for a ride. treat it as you would purchasing a car, do you walk in & pay the sticker or do you negotiate?? for the quality/price of components your looking at the dealer should be willing to do a demo. if not + his fantastic deals you were offered i would shop elsewhere.

as for comparing pre-pros, it's a pain. the least awful way to do it is to set up system on a small table with easy access to the rear for switching back & forth. anthem makes a solid pre-pro, i recently sold my avm30 & purchased a cary cinema 11, after a demo of both the cary 11 & the macintosh c45. for 2 channel music, the c45 was the best, followed by the cinema 11 & then the avm30. for other functions, it depends on what your looking for, as the anthem & cary have digital processing & the c45 does not, & only the avm30 accepts any kind of video signal. the avm30 offers a myriad of setup options & has the easiest on the fly adjustments.

again i skimmed the prior posts but it looks like you purchased an avm30 & anthem amp. i have zero experience w/ anthem amps but purchased an avm30 after in home demos of rotel, cary cinema 6, krell, the denon 2805 i previously owned & there was at least one other that i now cannot recall. from experience, the best sound quality improvement you can make using an avm30 for 2 channel music is to use a player with a balanced output & use the avm30's balanced inputs.

 

[highfihoney]

You should realize one things about amps: they do not affect sound quality. As long as the amp is sending enough power and the power is clean, neither of which will be a problem with any good amp, there will be no audible difference between any amp except the ones the real audiophiles hear i.e. placebo effects.

I cant buy that one,differences in amplifiers can be heard & the differences can also be seen & measured,some differences may be subtle while others can be drastic,an accoustic analyzer that is mic'ed to measure speaker response will show that audible differences do exist between properly designed amplifiers,the same accoustic analyzer will also easily disprove your claim that differences in amplifiers do not exist.