MB Quart car speakers.

[Tomorrow]

Here is the issue with your judgment on the speakers. The factory amplifier uses preset eq curves as well as crossovers to compensate for the inadequacies of the poor frequency response of the factory mid-woofer. What I am saying is the speaker you replaced did not run full range. The one in its place will not either. Sure it will sound better as it is a more competent design but you are not using the new coaxial to its fullest potential. The reason you feel you need the factory tweeters is because you do. The high end response is rolled off to your coaxials.

Thank cheap electronics crossovers and dsp chips for that. Upgraded audio systems in cars now days are usually the same factory speakers with a bit more power and better eqs and frequency separation.

Thanks for the info. It's much appreciated, Annunaki.

But I should clarify a bit, as I've been seemingly running wild in this thread with unintentional half-truths. (Perhaps my brain is still scrambled from the awesome storms we've had here in Oregon, and the concommitant lack of power, water, phone, etc.) The 1999 4Runners came with Matsushito (Panasonic) audio (cassette/radio in this case) equipment. When I bought the vehicle, I replaced the (cheap) stock system with a "Panasonic" (upgraded power) MP3 player that I believe came with that year's top of the line Lexus SUV's. I think it is stock in some systems, but is definitely an upgrade from my particular model (SR-5). It is still possible that this system is a poor marriage of components and that's why I find it bright. The stock tweeter is connected in parallel to the fronts, as I recall. (I do wish for a subwoofer, as it needs one.)

It is definitely a superior sound from the stock system that was imbedded when I purchased the vehicle, and also better than my old Alpine systems.

Please pardon the O-T issues, Dave.

 

[Davemcc]

Please pardon the O-T issues, Dave.

No problem. I'm learning as much from that discussion as from the answers to my original questions.

Besides, I've gathered advice, gone listening and ordered a set of speakers. The thread has served its purpose and is ripe for a hijack. Carry on.

 

[emrliquidlife]

MB Quart is owned by Rockford Fosgate (Rockford Corporation) or at least was. Perhaps it has been sold again? They applied some much needed cash to the company.

So who owns Fosgate? I thought that company had been sold some years back. I recall back in the late 80s early 90s, Fosgate was top of the line. Hell, I fondly remember my first punch 45 amp. That little monster was balls. Now I see the equipment at big box stores.

When I was pricing recently I asked about Phoenix gold, and the store told me to avoid them now. Then I asked about Precision Power, and they too were said to be poor quality.

I guess my question is, who is making the quality gear now a days?

Sorry for the thread jack.

E

 

[annunaki]

Thanks for the info. It's much appreciated, Annunaki.

But I should clarify a bit, as I've been seemingly running wild in this thread with unintentional half-truths. (Perhaps my brain is still scrambled from the awesome storms we've had here in Oregon, and the concommitant lack of power, water, phone, etc.) The 1999 4Runners came with Matsushito (Panasonic) audio (cassette/radio in this case) equipment. When I bought the vehicle, I replaced the (cheap) stock system with a "Panasonic" (upgraded power) MP3 player that I believe came with that year's top of the line Lexus SUV's. I think it is stock in some systems, but is definitely an upgrade from my particular model (SR-5). It is still possible that this system is a poor marriage of components and that's why I find it bright. The stock tweeter is connected in parallel to the fronts, as I recall. (I do wish for a subwoofer, as it needs one.)

It is definitely a superior sound from the stock system that was imbedded when I purchased the vehicle, and also better than my old Alpine systems.

Please pardon the O-T issues, Dave.

With the vehicle being a 1999 you may not have any treatment done to the signal. However with it being upgraded to a higher end factory system it has a much higher probability. With current systems (roughly late '01 to '02 and onwards) nearly all vehicles have some sort of signal correction, bass limiting or other features loaded into the factory source/signal units and amplifiers.

The days of simply replacing the factory speakers and leaving the factory source unit are gone. Doing so will only improve the sound on a mediocre scale. To do it right a new amplifer is required and sometimes a new source unit as well. It gets broken down to a vehicle by vehicle and model by model basis.

 

[annunaki]

So who owns Fosgate? I thought that company had been sold some years back. I recall back in the late 80s early 90s, Fosgate was top of the line. Hell, I fondly remember my first punch 45 amp. That little monster was balls. Now I see the equipment at big box stores.

When I was pricing recently I asked about Phoenix gold, and the store told me to avoid them now. Then I asked about Precision Power, and they too were said to be poor quality.

I guess my question is, who is making the quality gear now a days?

Sorry for the thread jack.

E

Rockford Corporation is:

Rockford Fosgate
MB Quart
Q-Logic
Fosgate Electronics

...and a few others

Precision Power or PPI is owned by the Directed Electronics conglomerate. Their brands include:

Orion
Directed
Viper
Precision Power
Clifford

...and a few others

Almost all companies are owned by someone else. Many of which are shells of their former selves.

The independent companies that are high quality and still operating like old are:

JL Audio (Still independent. Lucio Proni still heads up Woofer R&D and they stole Bruce Macmillan from Xtant (designer for PPI powerclass amplifiers and started Xtant) to head up amplifier design)

Eclipse (Still owned by Fujitsu Ten)
Clarion (I believe is a DM Holdings company now)
MTX Audio (Though is becoming a large corporation itself)
Image Dynamics (Barely alive to my understanding)
Earthquake (May have been purchased as well)
Morel (Re-invigorated)
Infinity & JBL (Still owned by Harman International but are making good quality products)


It is a very short list of companies that are still privately owned.

The market changed when DB drag racing took over the competition scene. It was all about loud and not what sounded good. Kids realized they could make a system loud without spending money on the good stuff. Mp3 and other things have not helped in that area either. The focus shifted from a high quality sound system that sounded good and balanced, to one that was all boom and a bit of sizzle. The lack of quality audio shops changing properly with the market place hurt many of the independent companies as well.

Here is a casualty list of companies who do not still create the high end products that got them the name in the first place:

Alpine (decent but not the same as it was)
Orion (decent)
Precision Power (decent)
Soundstream
Rockford Fosgate
Linear Power
Audison
U.S. Amps (Now made in China )
Xtant


There are a lot of new companies out there that are mainly internet direct that make some decent stuff as well.

 

[emrliquidlife]

Wow, say it isn't so! Orion is now so so. That gear used to be top dollar back in the day.

I know what you mean about the loudness of db drags. I was there when Eclips released the first Sound Processor for the car, and right about that time, the 15" woofer was becoming king.

Alpine, yep, tell me about it. Just a shell of what they used to be. I wish I remember the model of the tape deck I had, but that tape deck was better than my home audio deck.

How is the Boston Acoustics line now?

Ed

 

[annunaki]

OK, I just got back. They only had a couple of 6x9 JL's to demo against a bunch of Kenwoods. The JL's didn't sound all that impressive until I threw some volume at them, then they really showed their advantage. I didn't find them bright at all, at low volume almost dull. I ordered two pair of the 5x7 on the premise that they will show similar qualities against other 5x7 as the 6x9 did against other 6x9's.

I'm thinking about ripping my Rockford 4-channel amp out of my Town Car and hooking it up to the JL's in the Focus.

Good choice. The JL's will sound almost dull on a sound board as many car speakers are very bright so they sound "better" or stick out on the board so people will pick them. Are they the TR series or VR series? Either way, with an amplifier on them you will be quite happy.

 

[annunaki]

Wow, say it isn't so! Orion is now so so. That gear used to be top dollar back in the day.

I know what you mean about the loudness of db drags. I was there when Eclips released the first Sound Processor for the car, and right about that time, the 15" woofer was becoming king.

Alpine, yep, tell me about it. Just a shell of what they used to be. I wish I remember the model of the tape deck I had, but that tape deck was better than my home audio deck.

How is the Boston Acoustics line now?

Ed

Boston Acoustics is now a DM Holdings company too. Their stuff is still well engineered and sounds good. They still have quite a few good engineers on staff.

Here is a brief list of just some of the DM holdings companies:

Boston Acoustics
Clarion
Denon
Marantz
McIntosh

...and more

DM holdings seems to let the companies operate as they did in the past but helps with working capital and efficiency.

 

[adwilk]

Just as a freebee here, for somebody willing to spend money on a car audio setup, as far as the mids and highs go, i think FOCAL is gonna be really tough to beat... not super efficient, but they sound incredible... i just couldnt justify the cost. As stated i'm an MB quartt fan and use eclipse decks and amplifiers... Eclipse titanium sub as well... i'm pretty happy.

http://www.focal-america.com/

 

[Davemcc]

Good choice. The JL's will sound almost dull on a sound board as many car speakers are very bright so they sound "better" or stick out on the board so people will pick them. Are they the TR series or VR series? Either way, with an amplifier on them you will be quite happy.

The model that I got was the TR570-CXi. I haven't done anything about a separate amp yet. They are just running off the Kenwood head unit, but they are still a vast improvement over the stock Focus speakers. I'm glad I knew better than to be fooled by the brightness of the other speakers on the display board.

 

[annunaki]

Those are nice speakers. I have done them for many customers in the past.

I use the TR-600CXI in my Honda Civic. They are powered with a JL Audio300/4. The front two channels run 75 x 2 to the TR-600's and the rear channels are bridged to a JL 10W3v2 in a 1.0 cu.ft. sealed enclosure. I have an Alpine CDA-7995 running the system. It sounds quite good for what it is. It is a far cry from the systems I have had in the past but it is fine. It is a simple 2.1 system for the car.

 

[emrliquidlife]

Just as a freebee here, for somebody willing to spend money on a car audio setup, as far as the mids and highs go, i think FOCAL is gonna be really tough to beat... not super efficient, but they sound incredible... i just couldnt justify the cost. As stated i'm an MB quartt fan and use eclipse decks and amplifiers... Eclipse titanium sub as well... i'm pretty happy.

http://www.focal-america.com/

I agree. I heard the Focals at a shop in Los Angeles, and was BLOWN away! the depth from the 6.5 was amazing. I just can't justify such high cost.

What do you like in the bang for the buck range? I have a 85 Bertone x1/9, I'd like to get a 6.5 setup in. The car is a targa top and I do 90% of the driving w/o th top on. Plus, I park it outside. Say a spend of no more than $400?

Thanks,

E

 

[adwilk]

I agree. I heard the Focals at a shop in Los Angeles, and was BLOWN away! the depth from the 6.5 was amazing. I just can't justify such high cost.

What do you like in the bang for the buck range? I have a 85 Bertone x1/9, I'd like to get a 6.5 setup in. The car is a targa top and I do 90% of the driving w/o th top on. Plus, I park it outside. Say a spend of no more than $400?

Thanks,

E

if you drive with the top down, you'll need something loud if nothing else. You really need a separate amplifier for the application. Do you want to use coaxial or component speakers? You might be able to get an amplified component 6.5 setup in your budget... for sure an amplified coax setup. Actually 400 is a pretty fair budget. Can you do the work yourself? want to make sure your budget includes install materials and labor if you are unable to do this yourself...

 

[adwilk]

I agree. I heard the Focals at a shop in Los Angeles, and was BLOWN away! the depth from the 6.5 was amazing. I just can't justify such high cost.

What do you like in the bang for the buck range? I have a 85 Bertone x1/9, I'd like to get a 6.5 setup in. The car is a targa top and I do 90% of the driving w/o th top on. Plus, I park it outside. Say a spend of no more than $400?

Thanks,

E

These are a friggin' steal right now...

Click Here

And Here

 

[ErinH]

MB Quarts are known to hash some harshness in the highs, and the ones I have had did.

If you can go active you're golden, since you can pick and choose your own drivers.

Currently I'm running a 3-way setup with Dyn midbasses, Vifa midranges, and Hybrid Audio tweeters. 12w7 cleans up the subbass. Having an active setup allows me the ability to build my own setup, which is why I really suggest it. There are a few headunits out that will do a basic 2-way setup + sub, such as the alpine cda-9887 or 9886. If you really want to get a nice h/u you can hit e-bay for the 9833/9835/9813/9815 (my favorite)/7998/7878.


If you're looking for some quality components, you really need to look at a company called "Rainbow". For about $200 from a member (who's an authorized dealer) on DIYma you can get SLC 265 comp set that will make you grin from ear to ear. You won't regret that decision.

 

[cbraver]

MB Quarts are known to hash some harshness in the highs, and the ones I have had did.

Yeah, I have MB Quart Q-line components. The highs are fatiguing. Thankfully my Kenwood KVT-915 has a parametric EQ that I was able to tone down the highs with.

Last summer I made kickpanels. Now they aren't fatiguing at all anymore, it was the glass that was killing it.

Next time I do a car audio system I want to use Dynaudio drivers. Muuchhh better.

http://dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec.php

I also like Image Dynamic, but I hear they are in trouble. They have great horn drivers and subs.

 

[ErinH]

Next time I do a car audio system I want to use Dynaudio drivers. Muuchhh better.

http://dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec.php

I also like Image Dynamic, but I hear they are in trouble. They have great horn drivers and subs.

I enjoy my Dyn mw162. I will say this, though... there are a lot of drivers out there other than the "name brand" stuff. I've used Seas drivers, am using vifa drivers, tons of people use Scan speak (supposedly the best of the best)... in a nutshell, it's worth the time to look into other possibilities. But, you HAVE to be willing to take the time and do the install right. And I'm not talking just positioning correctly. Unfortunately, with a car, you have no where near the freedom of a home audio setup. Where with home audio you can move speakers around, you have to fabricate spots if you're not going factory. And even in that case you're still going to have to take time to deaden doors, get some closed cell in there. Use test tones to locate rattles and kill them.... in a nutshell, it's a PITA! On top of that, there's absolutely no way you're going to drop a set of speakers in a car and get as good response as you do in a home. Period. Not going to happen. That's when tuning comes into play.

But, after all is said and done, and the dust has settled, there's nothing like having great stereo on your 60 mile round trip to work.

 

[cbraver]

I enjoy my Dyn mw162. I will say this, though... there are a lot of drivers out there other than the "name brand" stuff. I've used Seas drivers, am using vifa drivers, tons of people use Scan speak (supposedly the best of the best)... in a nutshell, it's worth the time to look into other possibilities. But, you HAVE to be willing to take the time and do the install right. And I'm not talking just positioning correctly. Unfortunately, with a car, you have no where near the freedom of a home audio setup. Where with home audio you can move speakers around, you have to fabricate spots if you're not going factory. And even in that case you're still going to have to take time to deaden doors, get some closed cell in there. Use test tones to locate rattles and kill them.... in a nutshell, it's a PITA! On top of that, there's absolutely no way you're going to drop a set of speakers in a car and get as good response as you do in a home. Period. Not going to happen. That's when tuning comes into play.

But, after all is said and done, and the dust has settled, there's nothing like having great stereo on your 60 mile round trip to work.

Yeah, I'm sure the next time I do a system I'll spend a lot of time researching driver choices, I just liked the Dynaudios is all. I completely agree with you about the importance of installation, I spent a lot of time tweaking mine. Drivers are important, but good drivers with poor installation won't perform well. Installation is key for sure! The kickpanels helped tremedously with basically every aspect of the quality. They weren't too much trouble to make, I just used E-glass and epoxy over a styrofoam mold/plug I made. Took a weekend and a case of beer. I also used Dynomat throughout the cabin. When you close the doors now you can feel it in your ears.

 

[ErinH]

When you close the doors now you can feel it in your ears.

haha. I hear you. My doors make a solid "thud". I love it.

 

[emrliquidlife]

I enjoy my Dyn mw162. I will say this, though... there are a lot of drivers out there other than the "name brand" stuff. I've used Seas drivers, am using vifa drivers, tons of people use Scan speak (supposedly the best of the best)... in a nutshell, it's worth the time to look into other possibilities. But, you HAVE to be willing to take the time and do the install right. And I'm not talking just positioning correctly. Unfortunately, with a car, you have no where near the freedom of a home audio setup. Where with home audio you can move speakers around, you have to fabricate spots if you're not going factory. And even in that case you're still going to have to take time to deaden doors, get some closed cell in there. Use test tones to locate rattles and kill them.... in a nutshell, it's a PITA! On top of that, there's absolutely no way you're going to drop a set of speakers in a car and get as good response as you do in a home. Period. Not going to happen. That's when tuning comes into play.

But, after all is said and done, and the dust has settled, there's nothing like having great stereo on your 60 mile round trip to work.

Thanks for all the responses. My $400 budget is for speakers alone. I would either fabricate a custom kickpanel enclosure, or build out on the door. Given the car is a bit of a classic, i don't want to cut up the doors.

Since I live in a four plex building (4 neighbors), I can't really enjoy home audio like I used to when I owned a home. So, that leaves me to enjoy audio in the car. I can put way more time into the install than I am willing to put money into the purchase.

E