Matt's mini speaker shootout

[WmAx]

I found this out for myself today with this comparison. I could switch out speaker positions and cables in just over a minute but it was still very hard to compare accurately based off memory. A switch box will be purchased before I attempt something like this again and i'll have to get Adam down here to do any unsighted tests.

I will tell you one way to help in more useful remote testing: get a very high quality portable headphone reference system. Use a CD-R for both your portable player and an identical CD-R for the speakers you are listening too. Synch tracks with a 10 second advance on one; start with the speakers and then mute them and put headphones on. Repeat this process for different selections. Level match as close as possible, of course. The headphones will give you a stable reference to always compare to in any place/time. It is critical that you make up a CD - R compilation using specifically revealing assortment of tracks. You must use a very high quality headphone. I use a modified 2003 edition Beyer DT880 and a high voltage portable headphone amplifier(this is not a very voltage efficient headphone). With the modification, is the most linear/accurate headphone I know of at any price, and the most clean transducer in regards to resonance I know of, in either the world of headphones or speakers. This gives me a stable reference with no resonance to compare to speaker systems remotely. i can with rather good reliability, judge tonal balance, distortion(s) of high magnitudes if present and relative compared levels of timbre distortion(due to resonances). It makes resonance in other systems stand out like a glaring neon light.

-Chris

 

[Matt34]

I will tell you one way to help in more useful remote testing: get a very high quality portable headphone reference system. Use a CD-R for both your portable player and an identical CD-R for the speakers you are listening too. Synch tracks with a 10 second advance on one; start with the speakers and then mute them and put headphones on. Repeat this process for different selections. Level match as close as possible, of course. The headphones will give you a stable reference to always compare to in any place/time. It is critical that you make up a CD - R compilation using specifically revealing assortment of tracks. You must use a very high quality headphone. I use a modified 2003 edition Beyer DT880 and a high voltage portable headphone amplifier(this is not a very voltage efficient headphone). With the modification, is the most linear/accurate headphone I know of at any price, and the most clean transducer in regards to resonance I know of, in either the world of headphones or speakers. This gives me a stable reference with no resonance to compare to speaker systems remotely. i can with rather good reliability, judge tonal balance, distortion(s) of high magnitudes if present and relative compared levels of timbre distortion(due to resonances). It makes resonance in other systems stand out like a glaring neon light.

-Chris

That brings up another good point, a good reference disk which I'm severely lacking. For this, I just grabbed what I immediately had available which in some cases made for a tough comparison. I also need to burn a disk of test tones.

I doubt I can reproduce your headphone setup. I have the Sony MDR-V6, one of those cheap CMOY headphone amps and a Sony Walkman from the late 90's laying around here somewhere.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm pretty happy to see the Infinitys come out on top because I own a pair. It's like rooting for the home team. Mazer's predictions being fulfilled is interesting too.
Further product testing can now be replaced by a '1-800-ASK-MAZE' hot line.

Thanks Matt for putting the effort into this. Now I really wish that I had put the extra effort into A/B testing a slightly modified 360 with a stock one when I had the chance.

I know the 362's are new to you but I am dieing to know if you think your H/K AVR 330 is capable of driving them to reasonable levels. I have a 430 and now that I am actually posing the question it seems that if it wasn't enough, somebody would have told me by now.

 

[mike c]

I know the 362's are new to you but I am dieing to know if you think your H/K AVR 330 is capable of driving them to reasonable levels. I have a 430 and now that I am actually posing the question it seems that if it wasn't enough, somebody would have told me by now.

i used to have a 335, and if you crossover to a subwoofer at 80hz or higher, it should be sufficient

 

[Matt34]

I'm pretty happy to see the Infinitys come out on top because I own a pair. It's like rooting for the home team. Mazer's predictions being fulfilled is interesting too.
Further product testing can now be replaced by a '1-800-ASK-MAZE' hot line.

Thanks Matt for putting the effort into this. Now I really wish that I had put the extra effort into A/B testing a slightly modified 360 with a stock one when I had the chance.

I know the 362's are new to you but I am dieing to know if you think your H/K AVR 330 is capable of driving them to reasonable levels. I have a 430 and now that I am actually posing the question it seems that if it wasn't enough, somebody would have told me by now.

I would think the HK could push the 362 to unreasonable levels, they are a pretty efficient speaker. I had to turn down the volume a significant amount when switching from the X-SLS to the 362. I don't know for sure as I have the BPA-1 pushing them.

 

[mazersteven]

First off, the bass extension is phenomenal for two-way loudspeaker, I would be perfectly happy without a sub for music playback.

Try taking a towel and port plugging the speaker. I'd be interested to know what you think of the bass extension then.

 

[mazersteven]

I've never heard any of the speakers here. I find it interesting to see you've picked the Infinity over the X-SLS. The AV-123 have been often recommended here as a value speaker, sounding as good or better than commercially available big box speaker but for much less money due to the lower overhead of ID companies. The result here would suggest that a buyer is better off going to Best Buy and making their best deal on a set of Infinity for the same money (retail) and better sound quality than the AV-123 model. In a way, it disproves the viral marketing hype of the ID brands that show up on the various audio forums.

Factor in build quality, finish, and single driver/tweeter vs. 3 driver/tweeter. The x-sls holds it's own. Add in AV123 customer service, promotions, and support.

 

[Alex2507]

The reason I asked the question is because of something in the Stereophile review shown in this graph:

They say:
with an impedance magnitude that drops below 4 ohms in the lower midrange and high treble and an electrical phase angle that is extreme in the upper bass (fig.1), the speaker needs to be partnered with an amplifier or receiver that can drive low impedances with aplomb. (The combination of 5.2 ohms and –45º phase angle at 93Hz will tax amplifiers rated at 8 ohms.)

I have asked PENG his thoughts on it and got the try a 2 ch. amp and see response which I did. I can't really tell. I'm about to remove the amp because it's of an unknown quality and highly suspect. I think it's 'dirty' due to some hiss from the tweeters.

Another not so quick question of mine regarding the 360's is which rec'r with HDMI would be a good choice considering the info above? I would prefer to stay away from stand alone amps and such due to space constraints and I really would like HDMI switching capabilities. Is this hijacking? If it's inappropriate please remove it for me. Just seemed like the perfect place to ask.

 

[Matt34]

The reason I asked the question is because of something in the Stereophile review shown in this graph:

They say:
with an impedance magnitude that drops below 4 ohms in the lower midrange and high treble and an electrical phase angle that is extreme in the upper bass (fig.1), the speaker needs to be partnered with an amplifier or receiver that can drive low impedances with aplomb. (The combination of 5.2 ohms and –45º phase angle at 93Hz will tax amplifiers rated at 8 ohms.)

I have asked PENG his thoughts on it and got the try a 2 ch. amp and see response which I did. I can't really tell. I'm about to remove the amp because it's of an unknown quality and highly suspect. I think it's 'dirty' due to some hiss from the tweeters.

Another not so quick question of mine regarding the 360's is which rec'r with HDMI would be a good choice considering the info above? I would prefer to stay away from stand alone amps and such due to space constraints and I really would like HDMI switching capabilities. Is this hijacking? If it's inappropriate please remove it for me. Just seemed like the perfect place to ask.

Your probably better off asking someone like Seth=L, WmaX or Avaserfi, etc. about the receiver question.

 

[rnatalli]

I highly recommend Rodrigo Y Gabriela if you want to experience some incredible guitarmenship

This is a great CD. It only has like 9 songs on it, but they're all excellent. When someone told me that they did a version of stairway to heaven, I was skeptical, but they pulled it off.

 

[allargon]

Another not so quick question of mine regarding the 360's is which rec'r with HDMI would be a good choice considering the info above? I would prefer to stay away from stand alone amps and such due to space constraints and I really would like HDMI switching capabilities. Is this hijacking? If it's inappropriate please remove it for me. Just seemed like the perfect place to ask.

Alex, you know i have a pair of P362's. (I would have 3 rather than 2 if I had a non-DLP as my main display.) Although the 360's dip down to low impedances at certain frequencies, I would worry more about your sources and needed features (room correction, HDMI inputs, high res audio codecing, pre-outs, matrixing, etc.) as well as personal preferences in sound (Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, HK, etc.) to pair with the 360's. I haven't had any clipping with my HK AVR-247. I play a LOT of classical and jazz (not just CD's but Blu-Rays and HD DVD's). I tend to hit those nasty midrange frequencies. I rarely play at reference 80dB as I sit nearly 13 ft from my fronts. However, I'm not listening at whisper quiet frequencies, either. That AVR-247 handles the loads just fine.

Matt, thanks for the mini-shoot out. Hopefully we can have a few more at various price points in the near future. (That's a hint to Tom, Gene, Clint and Jay, if y'all didn't notice.)

 

[Matt34]

I rarely play at reference 80dB as I sit nearly 13 ft from my fronts. However, I'm not listening at whisper quiet frequencies, either. That AVR-247 handles the loads just fine.

Matt, thanks for the mini-shoot out. Hopefully we can have a few more at various price points in the near future. (That's a hint to Tom, Gene, Clint and Jay, if y'all didn't notice.)

I did all my testing between mid 80's to mid 90's and it really didn't seem that loud......I'm going to be so deaf in twenty years.

 

[emorphien]

In a way, it disproves the viral marketing hype of the ID brands that show up on the various audio forums. I'd like to hear your comments on this Matt, since you've invested your own money on both types of products already and gone through the trouble to compare and share your findings.

Agreed, I think a lot of internet brands get way overhyped. I definitely appreciate the difficulty of comparing speakers the way you did. Not just the delay and difficulty in keeping fresh memory of another speaker by the time you've switched them, but also as WmAx pointed out the issues with a sighted and delayed comparison.

Still, it is interesting to do yourself between various speakers. Certain things will stand out, but the closer two speakers are the harder it is to tell much about the differences using this method.

 

[jamie2112]

I did all my testing between mid 80's to mid 90's and it really didn't seem that loud......I'm going to be so deaf in twenty years.

Thats not true Matt. I have been mixing live concerts since the 80'sand I get my hearing checked twice a year.I have very little loss in both ears and I wear earplugs all the time when I am not behind a console. As long as you don't abuse your hearing you will be fine.....