Mastering Engineer gets the audiophile beatdown from collegues

[Press Record]

A mastering engineer compared his Tapco DAC to a Benchmark DAC and couldn't hear a huge difference. He was then basically told by many members of the Gearslutz community to get his ears checked. Audiophoolery is thriving on this forum. Some are trying to respond to the myths and misperceptions that get circulated but the vast majority of forum contributers enforce the status quo of hearing night and day differences between DACs and CD players. This is a community made up of recording and mastering engineers.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/344206-dac-upgrade-dramatically-underwhelmed.html

 

[highfigh]

"and using control panel audio output switchy thing to switch between."

That sounds just the way I would expect a mastering engineer to phrase it.

 

[fmw]

A mastering engineer compared his Tapco DAC to a Benchmark DAC and couldn't hear a huge difference. He was then basically told by many members of the Gearslutz community to get his ears checked. Audiophoolery is thriving on this forum. Some are trying to respond to the myths and misperceptions that get circulated but the vast majority of forum contributers enforce the status quo of hearing night and day differences between DACs and CD players. This is a community made up of recording and mastering engineers.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/344206-dac-upgrade-dramatically-underwhelmed.html

I would suggest that, if everything else was the same and if heard any difference at all, the differences was in his biases and expactations rather than the equipment. What is a mastering engineer doing with a cheap DAC like Tapco anyway?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"and using control panel audio output switchy thing to switch between."

That sounds just the way I would expect a mastering engineer to phrase it.

To me, "mastering engineer" does not mean "professional engineer" or someone who actually has a B.S. or Masters degree in Engineering.

It seems like practically anyone can be an "engineer" these days just because their job title says "engineer".

I mean does a recording engineer have a B.S. degree in Engineering?

 

[alexsound]

A mastering engineer compared his Tapco DAC to a Benchmark DAC and couldn't hear a huge difference. He was then basically told by many members of the Gearslutz community to get his ears checked. Audiophoolery is thriving on this forum. Some are trying to respond to the myths and misperceptions that get circulated but the vast majority of forum contributers enforce the status quo of hearing night and day differences between DACs and CD players. This is a community made up of recording and mastering engineers.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/344206-dac-upgrade-dramatically-underwhelmed.html

Excuse my naivety, but just what is a mastering engineer, and where do they fall in the recording process?

 

[highfigh]

To me, "mastering engineer" does not mean "professional engineer" or someone who actually has a B.S. or Masters degree in Engineering.

It seems like practically anyone can be an "engineer" these days just because their job title says "engineer".

I mean does a recording engineer have a B.S. degree in Engineering?

I have a blue and white striped cap- am I an enjineer? I even went to an engineering school. I guess they took that name because they knew more about how to get certain sounds while recording. I would have to assume that some are actually engineers but they would normally show that in their name or title. BSME, BSEE, PE and any other discipline would probably raise a few eyebrows in the recording community and immediately brand whoever used it as arrogant.

The guy with the Tapco, isn't, IMO. His methodology was far from what I would expect from an engineer, and because of said engineering school history, he doesn't fit the mold.

Q "How can you tell if someone is an engineer?"
A He stares at his shoes when he talks to people.

Q "How can you tell if an engineer is an extrovert?"
A He stares at the shoes of the person he talks to.

More engineer jokes- no offense intended (some of my best friends are engineers)
http://members.tripod.com/~B_u_d/engineerjokes.html

 

[highfigh]

Excuse my naivety, but just what is a mastering engineer, and where do they fall in the recording process?

Here's an approximate studio food chain:

Producer
Engineer
Owner
Artist
hired musicians
technicians (sometimes, one person performs many tasks)
Office staff (maybe)
"You, over there!"
"What's that guys name?"
A body, as in "We need a body here!"
Schmuck (usually the guy who gets most of it done)

Seriously, they're the ones who can generally get whatever sound is needed and may be able to design, repair and come up with a work-around when a problem arises. Alan Parsons was the Recording Engineer on Dark Side of the Moon. They frequently need to convert "I need it to sound like syrup dripping down a stack of pancakes" to sound. That quote is from someone I know who used to do sessions in Chicago and he swears that someone asked him to get that sound with his guitar.

 

[fmw]

Mastering, in this day and age is the process of assembling recordings into a commercially saleable album. The people who do this are known as mastering engineers. Recording engineers make the mixes, mastering engineers make the finished work that goes to press. Sometimes they are the same people. Sometimes not. Some of these people have degrees in their line of work and some do not. They are called engineers in the industry just like the people who drive locomotives are called engineers in theirs.

 

[Press Record]

What is a mastering engineer doing with a cheap DAC like Tapco anyway?

He was using it in a pinch to replace his more expensive broken DAC. Now that he is comparing it with other more esoteric DACs he is finding that he can't discern a big enough increase in quality to justify the cost difference.

 

[fmw]

He was using it in a pinch to replace his more expensive broken DAC. Now that he is comparing it with other more esoteric DACs he is finding that he can't discern a big enough increase in quality to justify the cost difference.

I can't imagine any difference at all, particularly after all the bias controlled listening tests I've done on DAC's.

 

[pzaur]

Just add some ERS paper and all the differences will be wiped away.

-pat

 

[Press Record]

I can't imagine any difference at all, particularly after all the bias controlled listening tests I've done on DAC's.

I would agree but you should see the aspersions he is getting from the forum. Some are even chastising him for admitting that he can't hear a difference between a $100 and $10000 DAC. Many are telling him he needs to keep those thoughts to himself and keep listening until he hears a difference. It's amazing that these same DAC nazis don't seem to have the same passion about room treatment. He even opened the TAPCO up and found the same chip manufacturer that the high priced DACs use. As an audio pro myself I am really disgusted at the level of ignorance amongst my colleges especially when it comes to gear manufactured to be transparent such as ADA converters, amps, mic-amps, etc. Even when you show them the science and measurements they still prefer to believe in the voodoo of the esoteric, expensive gear. A famous mantra is, I don't care about the science all I care about is what my ears tell me. It's hard to convince them that it's not their ears it's their bias.

 

[fmw]

Certainly the pro audio world has its share of audiophiles (perjorative use of the term.) But I find that most pro recordists have a fairly pragmatic attitude toward equipment. I think most of them will agree that room acoustics are very important for great recordings. I think most will agree that mics and mic placement matter more than what you plug the mic into. I think most will agree that great monitors help develop better mixes.

But there certainly are the equipment freaks to be sure. They are exactly like high end audiophiles in the home audio side of things. They are primarily equipment collectors. It is a little funny that someone will extol the virtues of a Neve preamp, for instance, and then destroy any audible trace of it with plug-ins in the mix.

My attitude about recording gear is the same as my attitude about playback gear. I prefer it to be transparent and linear. If I want to alter the sound, then I prefer to do it with something that is adjustable and defeatable - like a plug-in or a tone control. I'm amazed that not everyone embraces the same attitude. But, not everyone does.

 

[jamie2112]

That old time tested placing the mic in the right postion technique has gone away, and to me that is THE most important part of the recording process. Some Audio Engineers don't place the mic properly anymore and it can be heard in recordings. I also believe that really good monitors are critical in producing a great mix.