Martin Logan Motion 15 vs the B&W 685 S2 - Please help a new guy out

[Dan Silverstein]

Hello,

I just bought my first home theater setup. Well almost my first. I had a $100 RCA HTiB but that doesn't really count.

Last Sunday I purchased a Marantz 5008 with Martin Logan Motion 15s and a Motion 8 center channel as well as the Dynamo 500 (120 CMS 360 peak-10", ported)

I am posting here to get feedback as to whether I made the right decision. I went in originally looking to buy the B&W 685 S2, but after listening to the Martin Logans I really liked the additional clarity and detail I seemed to hear in the store. Also the base seemed adequate and tight although in my first demo of the 685 S2s the bass really had good impact and sounded even better then the 683 floor standers.

so its the first week its been setup in my home and I want to make sure I made the right decision. Magnolia gives 15 days to return so I want to use this to make sure I made the absolute best decision for the money.

I'm very happy with the details and highs but am wondering if I am missing out on the warmth and strong bass/mid-bass of the B&W 685s. I don't want to be a 'grass is greener on the other side' person because the Martin Logans may well be more detailed in the upper end.

I went in thinking 'bigger box and driver' is better, after reading up on hifi and home theater. I was looking for good full range sound, however the wife was looking for smaller footprint and keeping the cost down. Although the Martin Logans were $150 more then the B&Ws and somehow she approved the purchase

Therefore since I not only went with a bookshelf vs tower, but a small bookshelf then I had originally thought I would end up with. I

just want to make sure I made a good decision.


Can someone with more experience give me their feedback?

At a minimum I am strongly considering upgrading the motion 8s to the motion 30 center channel to give a richer vocal dialog, which is what they should be paired with anyway, although the Motion 8 does a great job and the physical footprint and looks are excellent.

If I want to richen or deepen the sound in the future I can always move the ML 15s up high and get towers or larger bookshelfs to make it a 7.1 configuration.

Also regarding the sub, I am thinking it may be too small, although my wife hates low sub frequencies even if they are not overly thumping so I'm not sure if a bigger sub would cause more arguments. Maybe a 600w closed sub like a SVS I keep hearing about?

The room is a main family room with kitchen and dining room in an open floor plan. Travertine tile floors, open hallway on the right side.

 

[macddmac]

Welcome to the forum!
What are your room dimensions, including height and distance from front speakers to your main listening position?
Do you have an area rug on that travertine ?
do you have a wall o' windows on one one side? If so, do they have treatments? ie: cellular or wood blinds.
The sub and center are two crucial aspects of your overall experience.. Bigger is better on both counts so go with the biggest center you can to improve dialog clarity for TV/ movie watching.
Cheers, Mac

 

[Dan Silverstein]

Room Dimensions

Welcome to the forum!
What are your room dimensions, including height and distance from front speakers to your main listening position?
Do you have an area rug on that travertine ?
do you have a wall o' windows on one one side? If so, do they have treatments? ie: cellular or wood blinds.
The sub and center are two crucial aspects of your overall experience.. Bigger is better on both counts so go with the biggest center you can to improve dialog clarity for TV/ movie watching.
Cheers, Mac

Thank you for the advice.

The room is 25 x 20 sq feet (~500 sq feet)

I have a leather couch and my listening position is ~11.5 feet from the front speakers. There is a love seat on the left wall close to where the sub is. The sub is located between the wall and the left speaker but not in the corner because I do't want too much boomy bass and I don't want to block it with the couch. There are two small windows about 3 x 1.5 vertical on the wall. No window treatments yet but I can add curtains. My wife wants shutters and may have to go with that.

There is currently no rug on the travertine but I know that I should get an area rug so I will look to add one shortly.


The system sounds like it losening up a little. Sounds a bit richer tonight. I also hooked up the ground wire on the sub. Not sure if it made any difference but seems a little bit clearer. could be my imagination.

 

[crossedover]

you need a better sub for that room. Check out Rythmik, SVS, HSU, Outlaw, PSA in the 900 to !500 dollar range.

 

[Dan Silverstein]

you need a better sub for that room. Check out Rythmik, SVS, HSU, Outlaw, PSA in the 900 to !500 dollar range.

I'm looking at the SB-2000 sealed sub right now. My wife doesn't like a lot of rumbling so a sealed sub may be the better option for me. Also, I want to also really appreciate the tonality of good music in the low frequency range so this may be good and help warm up the system.

What is your thought about the Martin Logan 15's for L/R channel. I was originally going in looking for 6.5" drivers and a bigger box but I really liked the clarity and detail of the sound.

Did I make the right choice with the ML-15 vs the B&W 685 S2s or not?

 

[crossedover]

Speakers are highly subjective, so if they sound good to you that's what matters. The sub will handle mid bass that you feel your lacking and you stated that you liked the midrange and highs so it sounds like you made the right choice

 

[markw]

First off, for a room that size you need a bigger sub. Looking at the SB 200 is a good idea.

Second, and also dealing with the room size, both speaker options you show are bookshelves. Since the main goal of a speaker is to move air, the bigger, or more, drivers you have, the more air is moved with less strain.

Since I believe a sub should be used for low bass only and one should depend on the mains for the mid/upper bass, I honestly believe you should step up your game and go for a tower with multiple mid/bass drivers of the same makes. Yes, the price will be greater but so will the satisfaction. All the M/L Motion series use the same tech tweeters.

But, to be sure while maintaining your current financial outlay, you could take the M/L back and try the B&Ws for a week or so. If you fine you really like the M/Ls better in your home there's no law against reselecting them. That's whats called an "in home trial".

 

[Dan Silverstein]

thanks for the tip. doing an in home trial of the 685s2 is a good idea. although I may feel a little guilty retrieving stuff to the store because I don't usually do that.

I know several have said speaker sound is personal preference but would anyone care to share they're opinion of the ml 15s vs 685s2? towers in either ml or b&w are over my price point (700 per pair) unless I look at internet direct brands,

speaking of witch, are there any ID speakers that can give the ML or B& a run for their money? I noticed the HTD level 3 bookshelves incorporates a ribbon tweeter and 6.5 driver.. in guessing the ML tweeter may be better since they claim they've made enhancements it's one of their signature features

 

[macddmac]

Hi Dan, you never mentioned whether the speakers were mounted on a stand or shelf. A picture of the room would be helpful.
Regarding Internet direct speakers, the Ascend acoustics Sierra one would be an excellent choice, Especially considering the size of your room.
I've heard Sierra ones in a large room and they can certainly fill it with excellent highs and mid- low midrange sound.
In my opinion, they are a far better value than the other speakers that you are considering.
Cheers, Mac

 

[chapelhaudio]

Hello,

I just bought my first home theater setup. Well almost my first. I had a $100 RCA HTiB but that doesn't really count.

Last Sunday I purchased a Marantz 5008 with Martin Logan Motion 15s and a Motion 8 center channel as well as the Dynamo 500 (120 CMS 360 peak-10", ported)

I am posting here to get feedback as to whether I made the right decision. I went in originally looking to buy the B&W 685 S2, but after listening to the Martin Logans I really liked the additional clarity and detail I seemed to hear in the store. Also the base seemed adequate and tight although in my first demo of the 685 S2s the bass really had good impact and sounded even better then the 683 floor standers.

so its the first week its been setup in my home and I want to make sure I made the right decision. Magnolia gives 15 days to return so I want to use this to make sure I made the absolute best decision for the money.

I'm very happy with the details and highs but am wondering if I am missing out on the warmth and strong bass/mid-bass of the B&W 685s. I don't want to be a 'grass is greener on the other side' person because the Martin Logans may well be more detailed in the upper end.

I went in thinking 'bigger box and driver' is better, after reading up on hifi and home theater. I was looking for good full range sound, however the wife was looking for smaller footprint and keeping the cost down. Although the Martin Logans were $150 more then the B&Ws and somehow she approved the purchase

Therefore since I not only went with a bookshelf vs tower, but a small bookshelf then I had originally thought I would end up with. I

just want to make sure I made a good decision.


Can someone with more experience give me their feedback?

At a minimum I am strongly considering upgrading the motion 8s to the motion 30 center channel to give a richer vocal dialog, which is what they should be paired with anyway, although the Motion 8 does a great job and the physical footprint and looks are excellent.

If I want to richen or deepen the sound in the future I can always move the ML 15s up high and get towers or larger bookshelfs to make it a 7.1 configuration.

Also regarding the sub, I am thinking it may be too small, although my wife hates low sub frequencies even if they are not overly thumping so I'm not sure if a bigger sub would cause more arguments. Maybe a 600w closed sub like a SVS I keep hearing about?

The room is a main family room with kitchen and dining room in an open floor plan. Travertine tile floors, open hallway on the right side.

I know this is a while later, but curious about which speakers did you end up deciding and if you are happy with the decision? I am going through the exact same debate as you today after going to Best Buy, except I haven't made the purchase yet. I would love tower speakers but they are too big for my wife's taste in our living room. I went into Best Buy thinking I might purchase a Bowers & Wilkins 685-S2. Initially The B&W blew me away with it's loud, full sound, but the more I listened to the Martin Logan Motion 15, the more it grew on me. but was impressed with the Martin Logan Motion 15's level of detail, clutter-free "in-person" sound. I could individual people clapping in the audience of a Michael Bublé concert. THe moment that literally gave me the chills was a moment when, after the Magnolio Room guy put on Don't Stop Believin' at my request, that I heard a sound I have not heard in the 18 years I've been listening to my favorite band (a little shimmer before the open electric guitar riff)--Mr. Magnolia had never caught it either. I am leaning toward the Martin Logan's for the purity of the sound for music...I'm a little nervous that it won't have enough umph or warmth that the B&M can provide. Will a subwoofer make up for that weaker mid-low range? Anyway, just wanting to know what you decided on after your trial-run. My room is 18.5 x 14 feet, and ceilings are 9 feet tall. Hardwood floors. Windows on one of the 14 feet sides, sliding glass doors on the other, that are sometimes open to an enclosed sun room with brick floors. On one 18.5 foot wall there is a fireplace; no windows; on the opposite 18.5 ft wall there is a door at each end, no windows. I want to emphasize musical quality over theatrical, but not be craving more in rock songs or movies.

 

[Swerd]

Last Sunday I purchased a Marantz 5008 with Martin Logan Motion 15s and a Motion 8 center channel as well as the Dynamo 500 (120 CMS 360 peak-10", ported)

I am posting here to get feedback as to whether I made the right decision. I went in originally looking to buy the B&W 685 S2, but after listening to the Martin Logans I really liked the additional clarity and detail I seemed to hear in the store. Also the base seemed adequate and tight although in my first demo of the 685 S2s the bass really had good impact and sounded even better then the 683 floor standers.

I'm very happy with the details and highs but am wondering if I am missing out on the warmth and strong bass/mid-bass of the B&W 685s. I don't want to be a 'grass is greener on the other side' person because the Martin Logans may well be more detailed in the upper end.

I can try to address your question – half way. I am not familiar with the ML 15 speakers and cannot comment on their sound. But I am familiar with the various versions of B&W 600 series 2-way speakers that have been available, and I find them unsatisfying and overpriced. They suffer from an upper midrange/lower treble harshness. This problem is due to that yellow woven Kevlar woofer (B&W's visual selling point) and the unusually high crossover frequency of 4,000 Hz that B&W insists on using. The harshness varies with the type of music being played and the volume at which you listen, so you don't always hear it. It eventually leads owners to complain of 'listening fatigue' and seek other speakers. I imagine the dealer knew how to select music that doesn't highlight this unfortunate feature.

So I want to reinforce your decision to pass on those speakers. Go with the clarity and detail that you hear in the MLs.

Yes, a subwoofer will make a noticeable difference with either of these bookshelf speakers. Play with the various crossover frequencies available through your AVR and see which sounds best to you. As a first guess, I'd think either 80 or 100 Hz might be good.

By the way, both Dan Silverstein & chapelhaudio, welcome to AH! Is that chapel hill audio by any chance?

 

[chapelhaudio]

Thanks for the input and response on this one, Swerd! You guessed right on Chapel Hill, though if there's a shop by that name it would be a coincidence...I found a great deal on the Martin Logan Motion 15's on ebay, so I'll be cancelling the Best Buy order (hate to do it to the guys who helped me out there, but I will save almost $300 or 30%, which I can put toward the rest of my set-up). Hopefully the Motion 15's will be big enough for my living room (not huge, about 18.5 by 14").

 

[Swerd]

You guessed right on Chapel Hill…

I went to school there, UNC class of 1971. In those days, there was an overpriced stereo shop on Franklin Street.

 

[chapelhaudio]

Interesting, there is still a record store on Franklin St., but it's very small and goes by another name. Pretty good spot to find new and old vinyls.

 

[Swerd]

Interesting, there is still a record store on Franklin St., but it's very small and goes by another name. Pretty good spot to find new and old vinyls.

I don't remember the name of the stereo shop, but there were two competing record stores in the late 60s. The Record Bar on W Franklin, and Kemp's around the corner from the Post Office. (I can easily remember those names .) Records were pretty much the only sound source we had.

Let us know what you think of the Martin Logan speakers.

 

[chapelhaudio]

I don't recognize those names but I'll keep an eye out. I have a feeling one is still there under a new name...just can't remember it at the moment. I'll try to post after I try the Martin Logan's that I ordered. I know one thing--they will definitely be better than my oft-broken computer speakers hooked up to my TV!

 

[chapelhaudio]

I'm very happy with the Martin Logans. Nice, clear sound, and it seems like they have an especially sweet spot for horns, jazz, etc. to which they give exceptional clarity. I also won a bid on ebay for a Martin Logan Dynamo 1000w subwoofer an got it at over 40% off even with shipping. I'm very pleased so far. My sister almost started crying during the scene in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes when all the apes apes are chasing the people through the forest as my house began to shake...a Center speaker would clarify the dialogue in movies, and I'd love to add surround speakers eventually, but so far it's great.