Marantz SR7013 or AV7705

[Falstaff]

Greetings, Programs!

This fall I plan on adding a 7 channel amplifier to my home theatre before replacing my AVR. I currently have a Denon AVR-4520. I’ve narrowed down my options to two new Marantz offerings—the SR7013 and AV7705. They are the same price and seem to have many of the same features, but, obviously, one is an AVR and one is a pre pro. Provided I’m using the unbalanced RCA connections, is there any advantages in going with one over the other?

I like the thought of going with an AVR over a separate because of the ability to have the onboard amp as a backup if my external amp ever fails or if it comes time to upgrade and I choose to relocate the AVR to our living room setup—something that happens every few years. But, on the other hand, am wondering if the pre pro would possibly sound better?

 

[lovinthehd]

Peng hasn't found audible differences between his Marantz prepro and his Denon avr he's using now in it's place.....keep in mind Denon is often a better deal on the avr than the Marantz model. Might start with this thread https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-vs-marantz-facts-marketing-hypes-best-available-deals-what-else.112571/

So you're going for an Atmos setup now or need 4k switching? I also have a 4520...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ah, another Separates vs AVR thread.

It’s not going to sound any better. So if sound quality is your ONLY concern, then don't worry about it.

Up for debate if the made-from-AVR AVP (7705) will last longer than the AVR (7013) itself.

IOW, these “pre-pros” are mainly the same thing as the AVRs they were derived from - minus the amp section and addition of the XLR.

 

[PENG]

Greetings, Programs!

This fall I plan on adding a 7 channel amplifier to my home theatre before replacing my AVR. I currently have a Denon AVR-4520. I’ve narrowed down my options to two new Marantz offerings—the SR7013 and AV7705. They are the same price and seem to have many of the same features, but, obviously, one is an AVR and one is a pre pro. Provided I’m using the unbalanced RCA connections, is there any advantages in going with one over the other?

I like the thought of going with an AVR over a separate because of the ability to have the onboard amp as a backup if my external amp ever fails or if it comes time to upgrade and I choose to relocate the AVR to our living room setup—something that happens every few years. But, on the other hand, am wondering if the pre pro would possibly sound better?

Have you gone through the thread linked below yet? It is 69 pages long but if you will get a lot of opinions and many listed facts, pictures and graphs. When you are done you should be ready to make an informed decision.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-separates-vs-avr-thread.110901/page-68#post-1269037

From my own experience, as HD mentioned, there is no audible advantage going the pre-pro+amps vs AVR or AVR+amp routes especially, as ADTG mentioned, if the pre-pro is simply a AVR minus the amps, plus the XLR circuitry and connectors. To summarize:

Argument for AVR based pre-pro (e.g. AV770X, AV880X) - Less components/parts in one box, easier to manage heat, have balanced (XLR) connections and legacy connections that some people may want to have. If failed beyond repair, you only have to replace the pre-pro. On additional plus, is that you can pretend it sounds better. In fact, with the power of expectation bias, a lot of people don't need to pretend at all!

Argument for AVR, or AVR+amps (if you really need the additional power or channels) - Everything in one box, so only need approximately half the space. Without the legacy and XLR connections and the associated wiring, by making the box slightly larger, better ventilated top, additional of fans, and now the improved Eco mode, additional heat does not seem like an issue any more. With Eco mode set to "On", my X4400H, that replaced my AV8801 actually runs cooler, though warmer if Eco mode is "Off" or "Auto". In terms of reliability, it is hard to compare because the AVR has more things that can fail in one box, while the AVP+amp has two pieces that can fail, and the AVP+amp actually have more components/parts combined, than the one piece AVR.

Two additional advantages of the AVR/AVR+Amp options:

1. Price - As an example, you can now get a SR7012 for $1,000 below the list price of $2199, because the SR7013 is out, that is a fantastic deal compared to the price people were paying only a couple of weeks ago. Or $899 for the AVR-X4400H that is virtually the same as the SR7012, minus the silly HDAM (Marantz), plus the so called AL32 (Denon) and the legacy mult-channel analog input that few people need or bother to use. Outside of North America, the price gap between the Denon and Marantz is less than half of what we see here.

The point is, you can always wait one year and get a super deal for a brand new flag ship or near flag ship AVR for half the list price, that is not the case with pre-pros, not even the AVR based pre-pros.

2. With AVRs, such as the SR701X series, you get 9 channels of amps, so in additional to being a back up to the power amp, you also have the option to use the internal amps to power the less demanding channels, and spend the same amount for a 7 channel power amp on a more powerful 3 or 5 channel amp instead. For people on a tight budget, that could be a big advantage, especially for those who want to take advantage of the AVR's 11 channel (such as going full blown 7.1.4 Atmos) processing capability.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

I have a 5 channel amp that I bought years ago when I thought it would make my speakers sound better. I dont know that it ever really has. I've never done any real A/B testing, but since I have it I still use it. I think if it died tho I'd likely go back to using the AVR only. That 900 bucks I spent probably could have been used for something else that would have been more significant.

 

[Falstaff]

Peng hasn't found audible differences between his Marantz prepro and his Denon avr he's using now in it's place.....keep in mind Denon is often a better deal on the avr than the Marantz model. Might start with this thread

So you're going for an Atmos setup now or need 4k switching? I also have a 4520...

I currently have a Denon AVR-3808CI that’s driving a 3.1 setup in the living room—the 4520 replaced it in the 7.1 home theatre. I want to replace the 3808 because I find it doesn’t sound nearly as good as the 4520 and thought I’d simply move it into the living room and buy the latest and greatest for the home theatre even though I currently have no plans for Atmos or even 4K until my JVC 1080p projector dies. The reason why I’m looking at Marantz is because I’d like a change, even a tiny one that a Marantz would provide.

Before I went with the 4520, I bought an Anthem MRX, boy was that a lemon, so I went back to Denon and haven’t regretted anything. I see Marantz as a safe change—higher price not withstanding—it’ll be different, but also so very similar. The UI is just a different colour, after all.

 

[lovinthehd]

I currently have a Denon AVR-3808CI that’s driving a 3.1 setup in the living room—the 4520 replaced it in the 7.1 home theatre. I want to replace the 3808 because I find it doesn’t sound nearly as good as the 4520 and thought I’d simply move it into the living room and buy the latest and greatest for the home theatre even though I currently have no plans for Atmos or even 4K until my JVC 1080p projector dies. The reason why I’m looking at Marantz is because I’d like a change, even a tiny one that a Marantz would provide.

Before I went with the 4520, I bought an Anthem MRX, boy was that a lemon, so I went back to Denon and haven’t regretted anything. I see Marantz as a safe change—higher price not withstanding—it’ll be different, but also so very similar. The UI is just a different colour, after all.

LOL I have a used 3808 (bought off an AH member) in my workshop, the 4520 is in my main setup. I don't find particular differences in sound quality between the 3808 and 4520, more the differences in the setup/dsp (XT32 is better than XT IME, both with the 3808 and an Onkyo with XT). Marantz just seems to charge a slight amount more for the marketing trying to take advantage of the brand name they bought....IMHO. Boutique avrs I wouldn't even bother with personally, cost is too high.

 

[Falstaff]

Have you gone through the thread linked below yet? It is 69 pages long but if you will get a lot of opinions and many listed facts, pictures and graphs. When you are done you should be ready to make an informed decision.

From my own experience, as HD mentioned, there is no audible advantage going the pre-pro+amps vs AVR or AVR+amp routes especially, as ADTG mentioned, if the pre-pro is simply a AVR minus the amps, plus the XLR circuitry and connectors. To summarize:

Argument for AVR based pre-pro (e.g. AV770X, AV880X) - Less components/parts in one box, easier to manage heat, have balanced (XLR) connections and legacy connections that some people may want to have. If failed beyond repair, you only have to replace the pre-pro. On additional plus, is that you can pretend it sounds better. In fact, with the power of expectation bias, a lot of people don't need to pretend at all!

Argument for AVR, or AVR+amps (if you really need the additional power or channels) - Everything in one box, so only need approximately half the space. Without the legacy and XLR connections and the associated wiring, by making the box slightly larger, better ventilated top, additional of fans, and now the improved Eco mode, additional heat does not seem like an issue any more. With Eco mode set to "On", my X4400H, that replaced my AV8801 actually runs cooler, though warmer if Eco mode is "Off" or "Auto". In terms of reliability, it is hard to compare because the AVR has more things that can fail in one box, while the AVP+amp has two pieces that can fail, and the AVP+amp actually have more components/parts combined, than the one piece AVR.

Two additional advantages of the AVR/AVR+Amp options:

1. Price - As an example, you can now get a SR7012 for $1,000 below the list price of $2199, because the SR7013 is out, that is a fantastic deal compared to the price people were paying only a couple of weeks ago. Or $899 for the AVR-X4400H that is virtually the same as the SR7012, minus the silly HDAM (Marantz), plus the so called AL32 (Denon) and the legacy mult-channel analog input that few people need or bother to use. Outside of North America, the price gap between the Denon and Marantz is less than half of what we see here.

The point is, you can always wait one year and get a super deal for a brand new flag ship or near flag ship AVR for half the list price, that is not the case with pre-pros, not even the AVR based pre-pros.

2. With AVRs, such as the SR701X series, you get 9 channels of amps, so in additional to being a back up to the power amp, you also have the option to use the internal amps to power the less demanding channels, and spend the same amount for a 7 channel power amp on a more powerful 3 or 5 channel amp instead. For people on a tight budget, that could be a big advantage, especially for those who want to take advantage of the AVR's 11 channel (such as going full blown 7.1.4 Atmos) processing capability.

Thanks for the link and advice.

I made it through most of the 69 pages and have to admit that I think the advantages of going with the AVR/amp route outweigh the pre-pro/amp one.

Now I just have to decide if I really need that amp I’ve been considering—but that’s a question for another time.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the link and advice.

I made it through most of the 69 pages and have to admit that I think the advantages of going with the AVR/amp route outweigh the pre-pro/amp one.

Now I just have to decide if I really need that amp I’ve been considering—but that’s a question for another time.

I think having an avr with pre-outs so as to have amp options is always a good thing. Only one of my four avrs has no pre-outs. Whether you really need external amps depends on a few things, spl levels, speaker sensitivity, speaker layout (e.g. for receivers that can process more channels than they have amps for, or just reducing load on the avr amps), etc

 

[Falstaff]

LOL I have a used 3808 (bought off an AH member) in my workshop, the 4520 is in my main setup. I don't find particular differences in sound quality between the 3808 and 4520, more the differences in the setup/dsp (XT32 is better than XT IME, both with the 3808 and an Onkyo with XT). Marantz just seems to charge a slight amount more for the marketing trying to take advantage of the brand name they bought....IMHO. Boutique avrs I wouldn't even bother with personally, cost is too high.

See, it’s funny, when I bought the Anthem, I found the sound to be a huge improvement over the 3808–like a layer of film had been removed from my speakers. So when the POS had to be sent in for repairs a second time, I bought the 4520 out of spite. To me, the 4520 sounds just as good as the Anthem, and since we now use the 3808 to play our growing vinyl collection, I really want to phase it out for the 4520.

 

[lovinthehd]

See, it’s funny, when I bought the Anthem, I found the sound to be a huge improvement over the 3808–like a layer of film had been removed from my speakers. So when the POS had to be sent in for repairs a second time, I bought the 4520 out of spite. To me, the 4520 sounds just as good as the Anthem, and since we now use the 3808 to play our growing vinyl collection, I really want to phase it out for the 4520.

Keep in mind a fair comparison is hard to do, too. I've switched out various avrs and separates over the years, find the differences in most aren't worth much, better to concentrate on other features/connectivity. YMMV. Some say the 3808 sounds better than the 4520....

 

[PENG]

See, it’s funny, when I bought the Anthem, I found the sound to be a huge improvement over the 3808–like a layer of film had been removed from my speakers. So when the POS had to be sent in for repairs a second time, I bought the 4520 out of spite. To me, the 4520 sounds just as good as the Anthem, and since we now use the 3808 to play our growing vinyl collection, I really want to phase it out for the 4520.

Even funnier, I happend to have compared my 3805 with my separates, a Cambridge audio preamp and Parasound Halo A21 many times and no matter how hard I try, I could not say one sounded better than the other. No layer of film/veil kind of difference for sure either way!! I also had a 4308 that I replaced with a $3000 Marantz AV8801 paired with 3 power amps, one being an Anthem, hoping to gain SQ when I listened to two channel classical music. Again, the 4308 that happened to be 99% a 3808 plus an Ethernet hub, gold plated connectors and that's about it, sounded just as good even on his own. So no offense, I dare say either there was something wrong with your 3808, the settings, set up, or simply the effects of expectation bias. You wonder why I tend to rely much more on the objective side of things.. I am very familiar with the Anthem (their high end separates) sound, they were transparent so one can just spice them up to suit their tastes. I have never auditioned any of their AVRs but I bet they would sound transparent to me too.

 

[Falstaff]

Even funnier, I happend to have compared my 3805 with my separates, a Cambridge audio preamp and Parasound Halo A21 many times and no matter how hard I try, I could not say one sounded better than the other. No layer of film/veil kind of difference for sure either way!! I also had a 4308 that I replaced with a $3000 Marantz AV8801 paired with 3 power amps, one being an Anthem, hoping to gain SQ when I listened to two channel classical music. Again, the 4308 that happened to be 99% a 3808 plus an Ethernet hub, gold plated connectors and that's about it, sounded just as good even on his own. So no offense, I dare say either there was something wrong with your 3808, the settings, set up, or simply the effects of expectation bias. You wonder why I tend to rely much more on the objective side of things.. I am very familiar with the Anthem (their high end separates) sound, they were transparent so one can just spice them up to suit their tastes. I have never auditioned any of their AVRs but I bet they would sound transparent to me too.

I wasn’t the only one who noticed the improved sound from the Anthem MRX and 4520 over the 3808, so yes, perhaps there’s something off in that AVR. I recently re-ran the Audessey on the 4520 and it sounds different than the past 5 years—livelier and certainly louder. Not sure why, but now when I run the PS4, I have to turn the volume down to -45db where before -30db was comfortable. For blu-rays from my Oppo, the volume is just fine at -15db, same as before I ran Audessey.

 

[omarbec]

I currently have a Denon AVR-3808CI that’s driving a 3.1 setup in the living room—the 4520 replaced it in the 7.1 home theatre. I want to replace the 3808 because I find it doesn’t sound nearly as good as the 4520 and thought I’d simply move it into the living room and buy the latest and greatest for the home theatre even though I currently have no plans for Atmos or even 4K until my JVC 1080p projector dies. The reason why I’m looking at Marantz is because I’d like a change, even a tiny one that a Marantz would provide.

Before I went with the 4520, I bought an Anthem MRX, boy was that a lemon, so I went back to Denon and haven’t regretted anything. I see Marantz as a safe change—higher price not withstanding—it’ll be different, but also so very similar. The UI is just a different colour, after all.

In my opinion, the main advantage of separates is the quality of the sepatate power amp. I have the Marantz AV7705 paired to the Monoprice Monolith 7X power amp. This amp is fantastic!

 

[ryanosaur]

. With AVRs, such as the SR701X series, you get 9 channels of amps, so in additional to being a back up to the power amp, you also have the option to use the internal amps to power the less demanding channels, and spend the same amount for a 7 channel power amp on a more powerful 3 or 5 channel amp instead. For people on a tight budget, that could be a big advantage, especially for those who want to take advantage of the AVR's 11 channel (such as going full blown 7.1.4 Atmos) processing capability.

This is the approach I'm working with. Since it sounds promising that my SR6012 is being repaired finally. I'm gonna juice my LCR +Surrounds with a good 5-channel amp, and use the Marantz for powering my Rears and .4 Atmos Tops.
It struck me that the quest to spend more is a quest for diminishing returns, ultimately. @PENG has been very influential in helping to open my eyes to that... as well as bunch of others here, too. I think at this point its just going to come down to cost/watt value for 5 channels. I'd like to have the headroom in my amp to reach dynamic highs at about 256w. I can't imagine really needing any more than that for a thrilling experience. Of course, the guy who hosted me to hear his Phil-3's was using a First Watt amp at 30wpc... which really opened my eyes to better understanding sensitivity and susch. But I digress.
Cheers All!