Marantz SR5003 vs Denon AVR2309ci

[Mike274]

I have been looking at the B&W 685d with matching center and the Def Tech Mythos 2's with matching center. I am stuck on small bookshelf type because the wife is absolutely set on no floor stands because they are too much like furniture. Non-negotiable so I will take what I can get.

Anyways. I listened to the Mythos 2's with a Marantz SR5003 receiver at my local audio visual store and loved the sound for music much better that the B&W 685d's. Especially in 2 channel. My question is that I took my son to Best Buy and listened to the same Mythos 2 speakers with the Denon AVR2809 and AVR2309ci and it sounded horrible. Good on vocals but very tinny and high on the music end. I listen to country music by the way.

My question is this - Does the receiver make that much of a differance? Is Marantz that much better for music? I have heard that you want to shop systems for music sound because that is the hardest to find a liking to. Will the Marantz 5003 also sound good in surround sound with movies?

This receiver is 90w with 1 7.1 pre-amp out. Is this enough power to properly run the Mythos 2 system or should I get an amp? Any sugestions for type and size?

Thank you all very much in advance as this newby is lost.

 

[Midcow2]

Probably the room setup

I have been looking at the B&W 685d with matching center and the Def Tech Mythos 2's with matching center. I am stuck on small bookshelf type because the wife is absolutely set on no floor stands because they are too much like furniture. Non-negotiable so I will take what I can get.

Anyways. I listened to the Mythos 2's with a Marantz SR5003 receiver at my local audio visual store and loved the sound for music much better that the B&W 685d's. Especially in 2 channel. My question is that I took my son to Best Buy and listened to the same Mythos 2 speakers with the Denon AVR2809 and AVR2309ci and it sounded horrible. Good on vocals but very tinny and high on the music end. I listen to country music by the way.

My question is this - Does the receiver make that much of a differance? Is Marantz that much better for music? I have heard that you want to shop systems for music sound because that is the hardest to find a liking to. Will the Marantz 5003 also sound good in surround sound with movies?

This receiver is 90w with 1 7.1 pre-amp out. Is this enough power to properly run the Mythos 2 system or should I get an amp? Any sugestions for type and size?

Thank you all very much in advance as this newby is lost.

As much as I like Marantz, most likely it was the difference in setup between the two listening rooms. Obviously one wasn't setup very well. Pure amplification there is not that much difference. if you are talking special sound effects, upconverting and the ability to accept different encoded audio formats then there can be differences.

The Marantz has good surround sound modes, but to be fair you need to find and audition another Denon AVR.


Also, don't buy your cables for the audio stores. Order them online from monoprice.com or bluejeanscables.com Also a good idea to get banana plugs (locking).


Good Luck!

MidCow2

P.S. 90w should be fine and your speaker choice of Def tech and B &W is very good

 

[bigred7078]

if you plan on ever adding an external amp then go for the 5003 because it actually has pre-outs unlike the 2309.

In my personal experience i recently owned the 2809 and recently purchased the Marantz 6003 and greatly preferred it over the denon, but YMMV

 

[Mike274]

Thanks

Midcow and BigRed,

Thanks for your time. I just listened to the Denon and Marantz again, but this time took my son with me who is new and impartial but music oriented. Thought this would help since I had listened to so many different things that I became somewhat confused. We both preferred the Marantz with the music especially. Cleaner mids and highs without the tinney sounds. Also like the Pre-outs as BigRed pointed out. More versatility. Thanks again.

Mike

 

[Midcow2]

Marantz is a great choice.

Midcow and BigRed,

Thanks for your time. I just listened to the Denon and Marantz again, but this time took my son with me who is new and impartial but music oriented. Thought this would help since I had listened to so many different things that I became somewhat confused. We both preferred the Marantz with the music especially. Cleaner mids and highs without the tinney sounds. Also like the Pre-outs as BigRed pointed out. More versatility. Thanks again.

Mike

I have a Marantz and like it very much; however, I didn't want to appear to give you a biased opinion. Also still have in operation a Marantz 1060 ampllier from early 70s thta still works flawlessly. I have had a lot of different AVRs over hte years, Yamahas (no problems) and Pioneer Elite ( which I had problems with) and went back to Marantz a year ago, February 2008.

Good Luck and enjoy your Marantz!

Later,

MidCow2

 

[drinke]

I have a Marantz and like it very much; however, I didn't want to appear to give you a biased opinion. Also still have in operation a Marantz 1060 ampllier from early 70s thta still works flawlessly. I have had a lot of different AVRs over hte years, Yamahas (no problems) and Pioneer Elite ( which I had problems with) and went back to Marantz a year ago, February 2008.

Good Luck and enjoy your Marantz!

Later,

MidCow2

Midcow -

I've been a Yamaha owner for a long time, and am now thinking about replacing one of my yamahas (an older model) with either a receiver that I might eventually use as a pre-pro. I was thinking the next gen pio 1019, but I am thinking maybe I am missing the boat by not looking at a 5003.

I need pre-outs, no doubt about that. And I need zone two. I read that the 5003 can go digital out to zone 2, can you confirm that?

One advantage of the 1019 might be ipod playback, I assume I could configure something on the 5003 to allow for this as well, no?

Also, how do you find the amp - beefy? does it get warm? This will only be temp (6 month to a year) before a add a seperate amp.

Thanks -

 

[lsiberian]

Just go with what you like. This isn't a difficult choice. You clearly like the Marantz setup so go for it. Marantz and Denon both make good receivers. So either way you would be fine.

Good bookshelves are plenty for most setups. Oh yeah and good job getting her to approve of anything.

 

[Midcow2]

Some answers

Midcow -

I've been a Yamaha owner for a long time, and am now thinking about replacing one of my yamahas (an older model) with either a receiver that I might eventually use as a pre-pro. I was thinking the next gen pio 1019, but I am thinking maybe I am missing the boat by not looking at a 5003.

I need pre-outs, no doubt about that. And I need zone two. I read that the 5003 can go digital out to zone 2, can you confirm that?

One advantage of the 1019 might be ipod playback, I assume I could configure something on the 5003 to allow for this as well, no?

Also, how do you find the amp - beefy? does it get warm? This will only be temp (6 month to a year) before a add a seperate amp.

Thanks -

Checking on digital output zone2 .... Here is the 5003 manual online: http://us.marantz.com/SR5003_U_EN.pdf
page 3 "Zone B digital optical output." second column

Any AVR can do ipod playback you need an inexpensive mini audio to two RCA cable like this one for only $0.66 yess 66 cents!
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2

Plug the audio into the ipod and the RCA into the right (red)/ left (white audio of any unused device, example CD.

Ihave the SR8002 and it is very beefy, yet I hvae it running behind a closed front door audio cabinet I left the back open and left 4 inches above. After running for several hours it is barely warm; yhou can put you habd on it and leave it without burning or pain. Marantz is well built and I would expect the SR5003 to be well built and beef also.

Oh yeah ... looking at the manual ...the new 5003 will upconvert to 1080p, mine will only unconvert to 480p even though ii supports switch and inputs for 1080p. The upconvert i have is VHS and that isn't really used; just connected and tested.

Good Luck!

MidCow2

 

[drinke]

Checking on digital output zone2 .... Here is the 5003 manual online: http://us.marantz.com/SR5003_U_EN.pdf
page 3 "Zone B digital optical output." second column

Any AVR can do ipod playback you need an inexpensive mini audio to two RCA cable like this one for only $0.66 yess 66 cents!
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2

Plug the audio into the ipod and the RCA into the right (red)/ left (white audio of any unused device, example CD.

Ihave the SR8002 and it is very beefy, yet I hvae it running behind a closed front door audio cabinet I left the back open and left 4 inches above. After running for several hours it is barely warm; yhou can put you habd on it and leave it without burning or pain. Marantz is well built and I would expect the SR5003 to be well built and beef also.

Oh yeah ... looking at the manual ...the new 5003 will upconvert to 1080p, mine will only unconvert to 480p even though ii supports switch and inputs for 1080p. The upconvert i have is VHS and that isn't really used; just connected and tested.

Good Luck!

MidCow2

Excellent - thanks, I was worried that ipod playback might require some kind of proprietary technology only available on certain avrs - I have my wife's computer hooked up the way you describe for internet radio -

 

[browninggold]

Probably what diffrence you are hearing is how the receivers are setup. Did you look in the menu to see how the Denon was setup? I have a Denon 3808ci and it sounds good with music and movies. Anyways probably not that much diffrence in sound-both Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company. D & M Holdings. IMO you can make any amp sound "bright", "warm" etc....just by tweaking the settings.

 

[Yammy Fan]

Other than the Treble, Bass, and DSP settings, what else can you adjust on the AVR to change from it sounding warm to bright?

 

[bigred7078]

Probably what diffrence you are hearing is how the receivers are setup. Did you look in the menu to see how the Denon was setup? I have a Denon 3808ci and it sounds good with music and movies. Anyways probably not that much diffrence in sound-both Denon and Marantz are owned by the same company. D & M Holdings. IMO you can make any amp sound "bright", "warm" etc....just by tweaking the settings.

lol being owned by the same company does NOT make them sound the same.

 

[bigred7078]

Other than the Treble, Bass, and DSP settings, what else can you adjust on the AVR to change from it sounding warm to bright?

You really dont want to change those settings on a receiver... Flat settings are generally the best and most natural. If your trying to adjust the treble or bass, your basically trying to fix what your speakers dont do right.

Receviers have certain sounding characteristics like you mentioned, but you cannot make a bright receiver all of a sudden become a warm receiver or vise-versa. You tend to get what sounds best with the characteristics of your speakers. Ex.- people like to mix tube amps are horns. Why? Well because horns are very easy to drive because of their high sensitivity and they tend to produce a very wam sound.


Marantz gear is known to push more towards being warm. Denon gear is generally pretty nuetral. Hope that helps some.

 

[Yammy Fan]

I mostly listen to rock, and I listen closely to the impact of the bass drum on the low end, and the crisp highs of the cymbals on the high end. Should I look for a "neutral" or "warm" sounding receiver?

Having owned 4 receivers in the past several years, I have noticed a significant difference in the way drums sound from the same speakers and room setup.

 

[bigred7078]

I mostly listen to rock, and I listen closely to the impact of the bass drum on the low end, and the crisp highs of the cymbals on the high end. Should I look for a "neutral" or "warm" sounding receiver?

Having owned 4 receivers in the past several years, I have noticed a significant difference in the way drums sound from the same speakers and room setup.

Depends on the speakers.

Ex.- People who have klipsch tend to try to find a warm or neutral receiver so it doesn't get overly bright.

And it also depends on you. Some people just dont like the way certain receivers sound, others love the way certain receivers sound. It just depends. In the end their is no right or wrong.

 

[Yammy Fan]

I have Klipsch speakers, and I prefer a bright sound. I have a low-end Yamaha 461, but I am not at all impressed with it. I would not describe its sound as bright as most do with this arrangement. My AVR does not even have enough power to compress the tiny 5 inch woofers in my bookshelf speakers! It is rated at 100W at 1Khz, but it is less powerful than my old Denon PMA rated at just 90W. I am considering replacing it with the SR5003 or the Onkyo 706.

 

[PENG]

lol being owned by the same company does NOT make them sound the same.

Lol you're right but the only way to make his 3808 and your 6003 sound the same to human(perhaps not birds) is to set both AVRs to pure direct, cover the listeners eyes, match the level and then someone else (whose eyes are not covered) do the switching.

 

[lsiberian]

I have Klipsch speakers, and I prefer a bright sound. I have a low-end Yamaha 461, but I am not at all impressed with it. I would not describe its sound as bright as most do with this arrangement. My AVR does not even have enough power to compress the tiny 5 inch woofers in my bookshelf speakers! It is rated at 100W at 1Khz, but it is less powerful than my old Denon PMA rated at just 90W. I am considering replacing it with the SR5003 or the Onkyo 706.

Get the 705 instead. It's 400 at accessories4less.

 

[bigred7078]

Lol you're right but the only way to make his 3808 and your 6003 sound the same to human(perhaps not birds) is to set both AVRs to pure direct, cover the listeners eyes, match the level and then someone else (whose eyes are not covered) do the switching.

No they are actually quite different sounding receivers.

 

[bandphan]

You really dont want to change those settings on a receiver... Flat settings are generally the best and most natural. If your trying to adjust the treble or bass, your basically trying to fix what your speakers dont do right.

To get a true flat response in non theater designed room measurments must be taken an some eq applied.

Receviers have certain sounding characteristics like you mentioned, but you cannot make a bright receiver all of a sudden become a warm receiver or vise-versa. You tend to get what sounds best with the characteristics of your speakers. Ex.- people like to mix tube amps are horns. Why? Well because horns are very easy to drive because of their high sensitivity and they tend to produce a very wam sound.

Non eq'd modern avrs have no audiable sound difference.
Marantz gear is known to push more towards being warm. Denon gear is generally pretty nuetral. Hope that helps some.

One thing about boosting bass or treble is that some of our hearing is different and adjustments are made to compensate.