Marantz AV8802A and HDR-10 Pass Through

[Josuah]

"Keep in mind there are issues with HDR on the TVs and our units. If the TVs HDR/UHD Deep color settings are enabled, it changes the TV's EDID information assuming its something different. Can you try with disabling those TV settings."

I then stated to them that disabling the UHD mode on the TV defeats the purpose of trying to get HDR to work on the TV, so I asked them to elaborate.

"We noticed when the deep color settings are enabled it adds addtional information to the TVs EDID when its broadcast compared to its original EDID. This lies in the TV. But I have no information of firmware updates or resolution as of right now. You may want to try the front AUX HDMI port."

Anyone want to try and decipher this? They are blaming the AV8802a not being able to get HDR10 to pass through on the EDID of the TV?

Reading through this again, I think maybe Marantz CS is saying there is a problem with turning HDMI UHD Color ON. I guess you could try setting it OFF and see what happens, but the TV manual implies you won't get HDR if turned off. And if this is only a problem when the AV8802A is in the signal chain, then maybe the AV8802A is doing something wrong to the advertised EDID when the setting is ON.

To fix it you might need an HDFury or something similar to advertise a fixed EDID. But I don't know if that is the actual problem and if the HDFury a potential fix.

 

[fizban11]

I meant what cable are you using between the Roku Ultra and the AV8802A. You need two cables. The AV8802A is acting as a repeater/retransmitter so it shouldn't matter in terms of total length as long as the two cables are high-speed and individually capable.

I am passing a 4Kp60 RGB 12-bit signal from the Xbox One S through the AV8802A to my RS500 display. I am using the Microsoft-provided high-speed cable between the Xbox One S and AV8802A, and a 25' Monoprice Redmere cable between the AV8802A and RS500. The Redmere cable includes an amplification chip.

A 4Kp24 YCrCb 4:2:0 10-bit signal from a 4K Blu-ray player through the AV8802A to the RS500 also worked.

I'm unaware of a board upgrade for the AV8802A.

I fully understand the Redmere chip. There are currently several revisions, the latest being PRA1700, original and revision 2. Both versions failed for me over 25' (I need 35' for each of my displays coming from the AV closet.)

I wasn't aware of the 12-bit spec for the XB1S. The specs listed here do not show 12-bit at all. Neither is there mention of 12-bit in the AV8802A manual. They sometimes leave off actual specs when writing these up.

As far as a 10-bit signal 4K24Hz UHD signal @ 4:2:0, that should calculate out below the High Speed HDMI designation of 10.2 Gbps, so it shouldn't be a problem.

For the UN65JS9500, it does support 4:4:4 and all HDMI inputs are HDCP 2.2. Page 147 (153 of 173) of the manual. However, it shows 4:4:4 to be an 8-bit signal support. 10-bit, as required for UHD Alliance specs and HDR10 requirements, drops to to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0. Either way, the Pre-Pro and TV are supposed to agree on the signal, handshake and output the agreed upon resolution. The updates that were dropped for both the Samsung and Marantz earlier this year, was supposed to allow for HDR10 content, so I can only assume that it updated the HDMI specs on the devices as well, though I have not found any concrete evidence to support this assumption.

Now, here's the kicker: looking at the UHD Alliance specs listed here, in this article, 4:4:4 is not mentioned as a spec. The specs for both devices, distribution (streaming services) and Content Master are listed near the bottom of the article. Notice on these specs, there is NO mention of 60Hz vs 24Hz and NO mention of chroma. BT.2020 or Rec.2020 is shown, but according to Wiki(maybia), BT.2020 can be any progressive frame rate from 23.976p to 120p, can be 10 or 12-bit and any chroma subsampling of 4:2:0, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. This article and reference to wiki may be incomplete, but that's what is listed.

Given the UHD Alliance specs as accepted fact, then minimum specs for UHD would be 3840x2160 @ 24Hz (23.976Hz), 10-bit at 4:2:0/4:2:2, which from what I can tell, ANY high Speed HDMI cable should be able to do. So, Marantz shedding some light on the EDID issue and blaming Samsung for this issue, is revealing that there are other issues there besides an HDMI cable, right?

 

[Josuah]

Either way, the Pre-Pro and TV are supposed to agree on the signal, handshake and output the agreed upon resolution.

Not exactly. The display sends out its EDID, anything in between is supposed to pass along the EDID (or if there is more than one involved then it has to decide what EDID to reconstruct before sending it along), and then the player decides on its own what to send. If the player sends something that won't work, then it won't work. It's not really a negotiation.

Given the UHD Alliance specs as accepted fact, then minimum specs for UHD would be 3840x2160 @ 24Hz (23.976Hz), 10-bit at 4:2:0/4:2:2, which from what I can tell, ANY high Speed HDMI cable should be able to do.

Yes. That should be true and any Ultra HD Premium display will meet those specs. Previous Ultra HD displays will not.

At this point I think you need to either buy a box that will read your EDID (I am led to believe computers with HDMI outputs can do this, and you just need to download some software) or find someone who can do it for you, in order to figure out what's going on. The truth is there's just a lot of issues with Ultra HD devices right now.

 

[fizban11]

Josuah,

Thanks, I'm looking into it. I wrote my HT company that did the install and sold me the Marantz. They are currently getting in contact with their sales rep and then up the chain to try and find out the issue and whether there is truly no fix in the works for the Marantz AV8802A. I did a quick trouble-shoot today, just for giggles: I used a Binary B6 5-meter cable which was tested before to work for UHD/60Hz/4:4:4 chroma from the Marantz to the Samsung UN65JS9500. I ran it across the floor from the Main out of the AV8802A to HDMI4 of the Samsung OneConnect with UHD color mode ON. After restarting the RUltra, got the same error of "Your TV reports it does not support HDR." I then disconnected from the Marantz Main out and connected it to the RUltra directly to the Samsung, same HDMI port with UHD color mode ON. I was able to choose the 4K UHD HDR display option on the RUltra with NO error. I then restarted the RUltra and Netflix was able to give me choices that showed "HDR 5.1" for all shows that had HDR and "4K/UHD 5.1" for other shows that were UHD but not HDR. So, with a cable that definitely works, going through the Marantz did not allow for HDR, bypassing the Marantz allowed HDR.

I'll post what my HT guys find out as soon as I have the info.

Ryan

-------------------------------------------
LVR: Samsung UN65JS9500, Marantz AV8802A / MM8077, Roku Ultra, Panasonic BDR (No 4K player till cables work), DTV HR34, XB1, B&W CM10 S2 Towers L/R, B&W CM Centre 2 S2, B&W (4x) CI 700 Series CCM7.4 (SS/SB), B&W DB1 Sub, PCH-VTEN (PLEX Client)

MBR: Samsung UN55JS9000, PIO Elite VSX-90, Roku 4, Pioneer Elite BDR, DTV C31 Client, XB1, B&W (5x) CI Series CCM816, B&W PV1D Sub, PCH-VTEN (PLEX Client)
Headphones and Control: Sony MDR-HW700DS System (Japanese Import) 2x headsets, C4 System
Home PC with PLEX Media Server

 

[Josuah]

I'll post what my HT guys find out as soon as I have the info.

Good luck. I am interested to hear what you find out.

 

[Cos]

Found some TV Guru on the Sony Board, PROBLEM SOLVED: I had to set my HDMI Ports on my XBR850C to enchanced. See his description below:

The Marantz Passes the HDR Signal perfectly, it was User Error commonly referred to as
(ID 10T)

Sony does a craptacular job in their manuals!!!!

HDMI Signal Format: Home>Settings>External inputs>HDMI signal format. Choices: Standard format, Enhanced format. All four of the HDMI ports on the TV can support UHD HDR, 10 bit, 4K, and 4:4:4 chroma.

For all 4K/UHD and HDR-capable devices (like the new Samsung K8500 BD player), for devices inputting 10bit video, for advanced PC and 4K formats like 1080p /60 4:4:4 ,2160p/60 4:4:4, the HDMI port the device is connected to MUST be set to Enhanced format.

Enhanced mode setting should only be used for sources that support it/require it, don't enable it for a 1080p Blu Ray player, for a normal Roku or DVR, as those devices won't know how to interpret and use the enhanced connection. Many legacy devices may have issues when the Enhanced mode is enabled as it changes the EDID data in the TV to enable enhanced support. Your non-Enhanced mode capable devices may play fine w/the HDMI port set to Enhanced, or they might not.

The TV HDMI Enhanced setting advertises the following additional supported timings to the connected source device:
4K (50, 60Hz): YCbCr 4:4:4/8 bit, YCbCr 4:2:2 /8bit/10bit/12bit, YCbCr 4:2:0 / 10bit or RGB signal. [Aaronwt]: "You don't need to have Enhanced on for the input to accept 2160P60. You do need it on to accept a 10 bit signal though. None of my 65X850C inputs are set to enhanced. But they have no problem receiving 3840 x 2160P at 60Hz from my 4K devices. Like a Roku 4, TiVo Bolt, and the Sony FMP-X10."

A high-speed HDMI cable is required: Your HDMI cable must meet the high speed HDMI 2.0 spec to support Enhanced mode, 18Gbps or higher throughput for HDR. You don't need a "2.0 HDMI cable," you just need a "high-speed" (18Gbps) HDMI cable - read the cable spec.

[Virtualrain] I tried both HDMI modes and looked at the display modes enumerated by the Intel GPU Linux driver on my Kodi machine. The EDID was different. How? I'm not sure. The exact same display modes were available (which may not be coming from the TV). The list included everything my Mac Mini can support over HDMI... Everything from 480i on up to 4096x2160 (which I'm not sure the TV would know what to do with). There were no 2160p 60Hz modes which the TV Enhanced mode claims to support but my Mac does not. So the list appears to be what the Mac supports... Perhaps not very insightful.

 

[MattyRoo]

Help! Just brought home a new XBox One S and am having trouble getting it to play nice with my Sony XBR75x940d and Marantz 8802a. After much fiddling I've gotten the picture and sound working but the video cuts out and the screen goes to black for a second or 2 every 20-30 seconds or so.

I've turned video conversion off on the marantz and the firmware is updated. I have the Sony set on enhanced input and full range. The Xbox is set to send out 4K and the TV recognizes it as 4K. I'm using 2 new 10foot high bandwidth 4K cables from media bridge.

Very frustrated and am about to pack the thing back up. Any ideas? If there are other boards that might help pls let me know.

 

[Cos]

Help! Just brought home a new XBox One S and am having trouble getting it to play nice with my Sony XBR75x940d and Marantz 8802a. After much fiddling I've gotten the picture and sound working but the video cuts out and the screen goes to black for a second or 2 every 20-30 seconds or so.

I've turned video conversion off on the marantz and the firmware is updated. I have the Sony set on enhanced input and full range. The Xbox is set to send out 4K and the TV recognizes it as 4K. I'm using 2 new 10foot high bandwidth 4K cables from media bridge.

Very frustrated and am about to pack the thing back up. Any ideas? If there are other boards that might help pls let me know.

I have the same problem with my PS4 Pro, it cuts out every few seconds or random playing Watch dogs 2. If I plug the same HDMI directly into the TV no cut outs.

As for my Xbox One S, it is flawless.

1. Check to see if our TV has the latest firmware revision, given it is a Sony, I am sure it is automatically updated.

2. Try plugging your One S into a differnt port on your AV8802A and see if it is that specific port

3. Call Sony support to see if there is a known issue

Not sure what your cause may be.

 

[Cos]

I have the same problem with my PS4 Pro, it cuts out every few seconds or random playing Watch dogs 2. If I plug the same HDMI directly into the TV no cut outs.

As for my Xbox One S, it is flawless.

1. Check to see if our TV has the latest firmware revision, given it is a Sony, I am sure it is automatically updated.

2. Try plugging your One S into a differnt port on your AV8802A and see if it is that specific port

3. Call Sony support to see if there is a known issue

Not sure what your cause may be.

To update my post: I replaced my Monoprice REdmere HDMI cable with a standard HDMI and I lost screen flashing in and out with my AV8802A

Not sure if the PS4 Pro doesn't like those cables, but I have it for my Pre/Pro out, so go figure. Either way my problem is solved.