A

afpyro22

Audiophyte
The more research I do on here, the more I realize I know nothing about sound systems or home theater. I recently purchased a HDTV and need to improve the sound system to match it and needed some guidance on which way to go. Currently I have:

Samsung HL-R5087W 50" DLP HDTV
Sony DVP-NC80VB DVD Player
Harman Kardon AVI 200 II Receiver
Cerwin Vega LS-15 Front speakers
Pair of JBL Bookshelf speakers
Dish Network Satellite

I'm looking to upgrade the receiver for digital sound input/output.
My first question is what is a recommended receiver sub-$1000?

Second: Good center and Surround sound speakers (are bookshelf speakers a viable option for surround?)

Third: Should I replace the fronts as well and add a sub to match the center and rear speakers? (the Cerwin Vegas have 15" woofers, put out some decent base compared to some subs I've heard)

Is it a good idea to route video through the Receiver or best to just route
sound through it?

Thats all the questions I can come up with right now, I'm sure there are a lot of things I haven't even considered yet. Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
 
Taifun

Taifun

Junior Audioholic
1) There are a lot of choices in this category. Depending on the features you are looking for you may want to take your total budget and ratio them to include speakers. For instance: Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer all have very respectable receivers for $400-500 that are really good, then spend say $1000-1200 on speakers.

2) Lots to choose from but ultimately your ears and your wallet will be the deciding factor.

3) If you are upgrading I would go with a matched 5,6,or 7 speaker setup and add as good of a sub as you can afford.

4?) Routing the video through the receiver is a convenience feature. It simplifies the switching of the video signal.

So I guess the big question is what is the total budget?
 
A

afpyro22

Audiophyte
I guess I don't really know what my budget is yet. I seem to typically figure out what I want, how much its going to cost and figure out when I can get it. The beauty of a component system is that it is upgradable....You can add on pieces as you go, when you can afford them and upgrade one at a time. So, that being said, I don't know what my budget is. If the component I need or is best, but too expensive...I'll get something mid-grade until it's in my price range.

Anyway, I want to do this in steps. First I want to replace the receiver for digital I/O (I have a mess of an ugly jungle of wires around the stereo and TV, second is surround speakers, then center.

I've read a lot on this site about the Yammy 2600. The whole video upconversion aspect is very appealing. Especially since I don't have an upconversion DVD player. But is that worth an extra $400-500 with HD-DVD coming out soon.

Subwoofer has been a question of mine for a while....The purpose of a Sub is for low freq sounds. The Cerwin Vegas I own, have a frequency range down to 26 Hz. Half the Subwoofers I look at only go down to 30 Hz, there are a few that are down to 25 Hz, but you have to put down some serious dough to get below that. The question I have is do I need to get a subwoofer and two new mains, or can I keep the mains that I have and use that as a sub, or do I need a sub to suppliment the speakers I have. I've been reading about Frequency crossover in the low range and how a lot of receivers have a cut-off around 80-90 Hz and the subwoofer is taking over more sound than it was designed for (ie. voices).

If any of that is confusing let me know, or if that didn't clarify enough. I really appreciate the response though.
 
B

Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
afpyro22 said:
I guess I don't really know what my budget is yet. I seem to typically figure out what I want, how much its going to cost and figure out when I can get it. The beauty of a component system is that it is upgradable....You can add on pieces as you go, when you can afford them and upgrade one at a time. So, that being said, I don't know what my budget is. If the component I need or is best, but too expensive...I'll get something mid-grade until it's in my price range.

Anyway, I want to do this in steps. First I want to replace the receiver for digital I/O (I have a mess of an ugly jungle of wires around the stereo and TV, second is surround speakers, then center.

I've read a lot on this site about the Yammy 2600. The whole video upconversion aspect is very appealing. Especially since I don't have an upconversion DVD player. But is that worth an extra $400-500 with HD-DVD coming out soon.

Subwoofer has been a question of mine for a while....The purpose of a Sub is for low freq sounds. The Cerwin Vegas I own, have a frequency range down to 26 Hz. Half the Subwoofers I look at only go down to 30 Hz, there are a few that are down to 25 Hz, but you have to put down some serious dough to get below that. The question I have is do I need to get a subwoofer and two new mains, or can I keep the mains that I have and use that as a sub, or do I need a sub to suppliment the speakers I have. I've been reading about Frequency crossover in the low range and how a lot of receivers have a cut-off around 80-90 Hz and the subwoofer is taking over more sound than it was designed for (ie. voices).

If any of that is confusing let me know, or if that didn't clarify enough. I really appreciate the response though.
afpyro,
my 2 cents.....
If you're into movies, you definitely need a sub.(not so much for music) In spite of your CVs ratings, they cannot handle the LFE tracks properly, and will not even touch some of the more demanding frequencies. A quality sub will dance circles around the CVs during a movie with an active LFE track, and the difference will be night & day. Put mildly....... it will change your movie watching experience forever. I can speak from experience because I use D-9s for fronts. The key is to find a well-made subwoofer. Once you do, you'll be shocked at how HUGE the improvement is because it will be dramatic.

My personal recommendation would be SVS.
http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm
I own a PB12-Plus2 and it was a movie watching revelation. I used to feel the same way as you do and thought a sub was unnecessary, but that was until I listened to my first quality subwoofer.

Another thing is that video upconverting receivers dont improve the source video. All it means is that you can you can go composite-in, and send DVI out to the TV. It doesnt do anything to improve the source. Now that you have a HDTV, you'll definitely want to purchase p-scanning DVD player because it will make a big difference with your new TV. You can get a decent player for <$100, so that is no biggie. To get the biggest impact first, I'd recommend the receiver & new DVD player 1st, then the sub, and worry about upgrading speakers later. Your CVs arent good for music connoisseurs, but they will do an admirable job serving front duty of a HT.

GoBucks
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
The first thing to do is slow down. Go to various audio shops and take a look at what is available. Listen to a variety of speakers, making sure that you listen to a variety of types of speakers (e.g., ribbon tweeters, planar, etc.), with a variety of types of musics (all of the types you like). The more you know what you want, the less likely you will make a mistake, and therefore you will waste less money and probably end up with a better system. And before you buy a particular model, read about its performance and reliability if you can find such information (though beware of purely subjective reviews which often are based upon looks, price, reputation, exclusivity, and weight of the equipment, rather than sound).

Now, for your specific questions:

1) The Yamaha RX-V2600 you mention in your second post is an excellent choice. However, its upconversion is not stellar:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRXV2600receiver1.php

Therefore, you are more likely to have better results if you choose a better upconverting DVD player. To pay for that, you could go with the RX-V2500 refurbished from www.ubid.com for $439 plus shipping (so the total is likely to be less than $500 if you live in the U.S.), which many say is a good company from which to buy (I purchased my computer monitor from them years ago, and had no troubles). The RX-V2500 is not quite as good as the new RX-V2600, but it is not too far off, and is far cheaper, leaving you with more than enough for a well respected DVD player, such as the Oppo OPDV971H which sells for around $200:

http://www.oppodigital.com/

You need to have a digital video input on your TV to take advantage of its upconversion, either DVI or HDMI.

2 & 3) Bookshelf speakers are viable for surround, and for the front, too, if one has a subwoofer for the bass. Modern surround receivers can divert the deep bass from the various channels to the subwoofer output, so solid bass down to 80 Hz or a little lower is all that is typically necessary. You should try to have all of your speakers match each other. This is especially important for the front three speakers, but it matters all around to some degree. This is a good idea because when watching a movie, it is good if when something seems to go from the left to the center to the right channel, it is good if its tonal quality stays the same as it does so. Otherwise, the illusion will be broken, and the fact that you are listening to speakers that do not sound the same can be obvious. So, if you love your main speakers and do not plan on parting with them, I suggest you try to buy speakers that match them. But, before you do that, make sure you listen to a variety of other speakers first, as you may change your mind, and it will be better to change your mind before rather than after you start spending money.

Regarding the need for a subwoofer, if you are happy with the bass from your main speakers, you do not need a subwoofer. However, I suggest you go and listen to some systems with subwoofers and see if they change your mind. You are right that subwoofers that go really deep tend to be expensive, though you can get bass down to just below 20 Hz @ -3dB for about $500 delivered from SVS. They also make a subwoofer that can go down to about 12 Hz @ -3 dB for less than $1000.

This brings me to something that many people seem to forget. Speakers make the most difference in sound quality of any piece of equipment you can buy. The difference between receivers is generally slight in comparison, though, of course, convenience features can matter, and some are more powerful than others, which can matter, depending upon the speakers one is using. Anyway, I recommend that you spend MORE on speakers than on the rest of the audio system, if what you really care about is the sound. Many people buy an expensive receiver and hook up lowly speakers, and what they get are great features and unimpressive sound. If they bought a lower receiver and better speakers, they would have better sound. This, by the way, also is in keeping with my recommendation above, as the Yamaha RX-V2500 is a fine receiver with many features, and is likely all one will need (though you need to find out what features you require for yourself, and judge the matter for yourself, as it is your money and you will be the one living with the consequences of your choices).
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I forgot to comment on one other thing:

afpyro22 said:
The more research I do on here, the more I realize I know nothing about sound systems or home theater.
That shows much more intelligence than many people have, as they imagine they know things that they don't know. So the solution for you is simply to learn, though for them, they must unlearn what they currently believe to end up with the truth. Of course, you need to be careful about your sources, so that you don't end up believing a good deal of nonsense like so many others. For that, I suggest reading a variety of opinions, and thinking carefully about what everyone says. If what they say doesn't make sense, don't believe it. And don't be afraid of changing your mind about something, as it is very bad if one is unable to correct one's mistakes. Anyway, good luck to you.
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
New sound system

The Yamaha RX-V1600 would be a good option in the <$1K price range. Very similar in features and power to the 2600.

For a good bookshelf system, Axiom Audio, Onix X-LS (av123.com) and SVS are good option in the <$1K price range. Check out the 10" and 12" subs from SVS and HSU to provide the LFE you want.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top