Looking to upgrade my turntable

[m. zillch]

a conical stylus because they work the best with older worn, scratched, and used records

I have seen many people say that anecdotally. . . . but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[Mike Up]

I have seen many people say that anecdotally but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

While I haven't compared, the conical is said to track better in worn grooves and offer less noise, pops and clicks from older worn and scratched records.

I've read this in so many places, I feel it may have some merit to it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have seen many people say that anecdotally. . . . but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

The only advantage is that they do make slightly less noise hitting bumps and scratches, otherwise it is all negative. Their SQ is poorer, in particular distortion is significantly higher. If his discs are very noisy there may be some point, but not much. Record wear is higher with a conical stylus and the ellipticals track and hug the groove better. I could not be persuaded to go that route, and I would bet the noise reduction is barely significant.

 

[m. zillch]

From the notes: "Two very different stylus shapes on the same old, worn out and noisy record surface."

Same turntable, tonearm, cartridge, same exact "worn out" record, and same passage. The only change is stylus profile.

 

[Mike Up]

I don't see any scratches on that record which is a huge part of the Conical Stylus benefit. Also how about static that would affect each the same?

 

[m. zillch]

I don't see any scratches on that record which is a huge part of the Conical Stylus benefit.

I'm thinking the reason nobody has ever uploaded an example of a conical stylus playing a record with scratches better than the same cartridge fitted with a line contact (or similar) stylus is because. . . they can't find any examples which demonstrate this claimed improvement. They try, they sound the same on the scratches, so they don't post anything at all.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm thinking the reason nobody has ever uploaded an example of a conical stylus playing a record with scratches better than the same cartridge fitted with a line contact stylus is because. . . they can't find any examples which demonstrate this claimed improvement. They try, they sound the same on the scratches, so they don't post anything at all.

How many examples of any cartridge claims come with, or are based on, proper comparisons? Let alone stylus....

 

[m. zillch]

^Not many but there are some.

 

[Mike Up]

Well my cancellation did not go through on the Denon DP-300F so it came today along with another Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT. So I have 2 new turntables in the box to compare to the other LP3XBT with a loud motor.

Now through my exhausted web searches, it seems that none of these turntables except the ultra expensive, are reliable.

So the worst speed and motor issues I found are with Fluance. Then I did find speed issues on the Denon DP-300F that is common. The DP-300F seems to be a copy of the Audio Technica AT-LP3 which is the previous model to the LP3XBT. Then I found the motor 'noise' only issues with the Audio Technica AT-LP70XBT. Believe it or not, the LP3XBT has no motor issues that I could find on the web except for my issue.

I did find speed issue complaints on the U-Turn turntables as well as Pro-Ject Turntables. Nothing else. So it seems Turntables now a days are just built like crap unless you want to spend a fortune of over $650 on turntable.

I guess it makes sense since the format is technically DEAD and only has come back as a FAD for the younger generation with prices for vinyl records that are insane at $30 or twice that of a CD. Back in the day when both formats existed at the same time, they were the same price. Now when the record store in my mall, was discontinuing records in favor of CDs, they had them on clearance at $.99 or $2.00, which I still have the price tags on my albums.

Now for us older generation that still have albums from when it was in their heyday, continuing to use them only makes sense but at these prices they want for records and turntables, it is just insane!! I haven't bought or acquired a record since the mid 90s, which after that I went to CD only. I only bought new records in the mid 90s because they were so dirt cheap. Even with all of vinyl's higher distortion and other limitations, they still sound very good compared to MP3s (or other compressed formats), cassettes, and broadcast radio. The differences in quality between a CD and a record, IMO, is no worse than some of the differing masters for CD out there.

I did count my records and have less than I thought. Probably about 45 that can still be played and not badly damaged. Now I have about 10 to 20 records that I wouldn't play as they are severely damaged so bad that they skip. I haven't wanted to play them even on my LP60-USB $120 turntable.

If I get a turntable to work out, I may buy a new record with my superb price hunting skills, if I find one at CD prices or lower. Just for the fun of having a new record. No real advantage of buying a CD anymore as my last 3 trucks didn't have a CD player in them as they are set to stream, which I use Tidal.

I'm hoping the motor noise won't be bad on this 'newer' LP3XBT because I don't like the odds that I've read about with motor speed issues on the Denon DP-300F.

Now I just have to find the time to setup the new turntable(s).

 

[lovinthehd]

Well my cancellation did not go through on the Denon DP-300F so it came today along with another Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT. So I have 2 new turntables in the box to compare to the other LP3XBT with a loud motor.

Now through my exhausted web searches, it seems that none of these turntables except the ultra expensive, are reliable.

So the worst speed and motor issues I found are with Fluance. Then I did find speed issues on the Denon DP-300F that is common. The DP-300F seems to be a copy of the Audio Technica AT-LP3 which is the previous model to the LP3XBT. Then I found the motor 'noise' only issues with the Audio Technica AT-LP70XBT. Believe it or not, the LP3XBT has no motor issues that I could find on the web except for my issue.

I did find speed issue complaints on the U-Turn turntables as well as Pro-Ject Turntables. Nothing else. So it seems Turntables now a days are just built like crap unless you want to spend a fortune of over $650 on turntable.

I guess it makes sense since the format is technically DEAD and only has come back as a FAD for the younger generation with prices for vinyl records that are insane at $30 or twice that of a CD. Back in the day when both formats existed at the same time, they were the same price. Now when the record store in my mall, was discontinuing records in favor of CDs, they had them on clearance at $.99 or $2.00, which I still have the price tags on my albums.

Now for us older generation that still have albums from when it was in their heyday, continuing to use them only makes sense but at these prices they want for records and turntables, it is just insane!! I haven't bought or acquired a record since the mid 90s, which after that I went to CD only. I only bought new records in the mid 90s because they were so dirt cheap. Even with all of vinyl's higher distortion and other limitations, they still sound very good compared to MP3s (or other compressed formats), cassettes, and broadcast radio. The differences in quality between a CD and a record, IMO, is no worse than some of the differing masters for CD out there.

I did count my records and have less than I thought. Probably about 45 that can still be played and not badly damaged. Now I have about 10 to 20 records that I wouldn't play as they are severely damaged so bad that they skip. I haven't wanted to play them even on my LP60-USB $120 turntable.

I'm hoping the motor noise won't be bad on this 'newer' LP3XBT because I don't like the odds that I've read about with motor speed issues on the Denon DP-300F.

Now I just have to find the time to setup the new turntable(s).

It seems the rush back into vinyl players has been cheaped out? What a surprise Altho this is a much worse experience, particularly simultaneously with different u8nits, than I have seen reported before. For those few vinyls I'd just move on in any case.

 

[Mike Up]

It seems the rush back into vinyl players has been cheaped out? What a surprise Altho this is a much worse experience, particularly simultaneously with different u8nits, than I have seen reported before. For those few vinyls I'd just move on in any case.

Yes, I agree about moving on. I do have many albums I like listening to, I just wanted something nicer to listen to them on while still not overspending for what it is. At $16 an album, I'm just over 50% with a $400 Turntable, of what they would cost to replace with CDs. Plus buying a new record, if I can find one around $20 or cheaper, would be fun with some newer music, mainly Lynyrd Skynyrd or Metallica.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I agree about moving on. I do have many albums I like listening to, I just wanted something nicer to listen to them on while still not overspending for what it is. At $16 an album, I'm just over 50% with a $400 Turntable, of what they would cost to replace with CDs. Plus buying a new record, if I can find one around $20 or cheaper, would be fun with some newer music, mainly Lynyrd Skynyrd or Metallica.

Whut, newer is Lynyrd Skynyrd? Maybe Metallica, they're fucking old

 

[Mike Up]

Whut, newer is Lynyrd Skynyrd? Maybe Metallica, they're fucking old

Yeh, with Johnny Van Zant. That's new to me!

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeh, with Johnny Van Zant. That's new to me!

LOL me too. Was more thinking original group which was quite a while ago for me Some friends of mine had a house at a great spot on the beach in Santa Monica, and remember well a party there where I first heard the brand new Lynyrd Skynyrd.....it was wild.

 

[Mike Up]

LOL me too. Was more thinking original group which was quite a while ago for me Some friends of mine had a house at a great spot on the beach in Santa Monica, and remember well a party there where I first heard the brand new Lynyrd Skynyrd.....it was wild.

Yeh, I saw them play at House of Blues in Chicago in the late 90s and what an awesome concert. House of Blues is great because it's so small and intimate, it's like listening to a garage band, but in a pole barn.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeh, I saw them play at House of Blues in Chicago in the late 90s and what an awesome concert. House of Blues is great because it's so small and intimate, it's like listening to a garage band, but in a pole barn.

My example was from early 70s. You didn't see the same group either.

 

[Mike Up]

My example was from early 70s. You didn't see the same group either.

NO, not the original as I would had been a very little kid back into those days.

Bad news, second AT-LP3XBT has the same motor noise. Even though they were from 2 different retailers, they both had a 4-1-2022 date on them stating they were probably from the same run.

What a shame. I guess that's to be expected with Bluetooth, fully automatic operation plus a good AT-VM95c cartridge. All the other turntables in it's price range either have the AT91 or AT3600L. The Denon DP-29F which appears to be a near clone of my AT-LP60_USB has a DL-82 (AT3600L Cartridge) and the Denon DP-300F has a DL-85 cartridge (which I have found to be AT91 cartridge with it's 2 grams of tracking force). Not the greatest cartridge but not the worst either. Heck, the $400 Dual, Teac, Music Hall and JBL turntables all come with the lower end AT3600L cartridge that I already have on my AT-LP60_USB.

The Custom U-Turn turntable comes with the AT91 also for $474 with Cue, Acrylic Platter, and electronic Speed Control. Denon adds automatic control and preamp for $350.

Now I'm thinking of gambling on the Denon. If it does good, instead of replacing the stylus when it needs, I'll just replace to the AT-VM95c which is actually $4 cheaper than Denon branded Stylus.

Now I just have to open it and check it out.

 

[Mike Up]

Looks like the Denon was nearly as quiet as my LP60-USB so looks like I'll be keeping the Denon. The platter had a date of August 2025 so hopefully the bad motors from years ago are corrected and replaced.

Definitely is a lot more classy looking and upscale looking. The tone arm area where the counterweight would go as some scratches from a counterweight. Looks like they tried a counterweight on the arm at the factory as it was all sealed up and not opened previously. It's also 1 lb heavier than the audio technica.

Looks very similar to the Audio Tecnica AT-LP3, previous version without BT. The tonearm and it's assembly are different for the Audio Technica besides it's body also being different. The preamp switch in hidden under the platter on the Denon while on the back of the Audio Technica. Also no ground wire on the Denon opposed to Audio Technica.

 

[Mike Up]

Looks like the Denon is a hit!

Comparing Heart Passion works once again to the 24 bit/96 Khz FLAC files on Tidal, this Vinyl and turntable blows away the Digital file. Voices are not as harsh or distorted as FLAC file, and bass is much punchier and fuller. There is more clarity to the songs over the Digital FLAC files as well. I feel the Tidal FLAC files for the Heart Passion Works is highly compressed as it sounds like it.

If anything, this DNS-85 is the rebrand of the AT91R, not AT91, as the stylus has an aluminum cantilever. Sounds great! It may be missing some better high end treble and detail of the AT-VM95c, but not by much to be very significant.

Also, no motor noise!! Very quiet. The motor noise on the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT was more a detractor to the music than any differences between the cartridges.

Now the Audio Technica AT-LP60-USB turntable I have, has an AT3600L cartridge. Now I have absolutely no sibilance but it is definitely muddier on the voices and is lacking on bass and treble next to the Denon DP-300F and the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT. I don't know if that could be stylus wear as I really doubt it with little it's actually played over the years. Or if it's just that the AT3600L is that much worse than the AT91R and AT-VM95c.