Looking for some help on a new room

[BrokeEF]

First off, I have been on this forum for a LONG time but was unable to login so I just made a new account. My old user name is Rowdy S13 for anyone who may remember me.

Anyway, I have room in my house that I am kind of stuck on. It is a living room in a loft, so one entire side is wide open to the rest of the house. I originally got some in wall speakers for the front LCR, but there is all kinds of stuff inside the wall that has the TV on it. The room can only be laid out the way it is because of windows and the hallway. The first plan was to build some kind of false wall to bump out an area for the TV and speakers. I have been on the fence about this idea for a while. Then yesterday I was thinking about doing in ceiling fronts for ease of install. Then I was considering a LCR passive sound bar, and also on wall speakers.

This is a secondary system, I have another system in the basement. This is just daily driver, TV watching, some gaming, maybe a movie here or there. I can get specifics if anyone wants, but I have a Denon receiver, Oppo Blu-Ray player, rear speakers are 8" Monoprice in ceiling, the in walls I got were Monoprice with the ribbon tweeters. I have a sealed 15" Dayton sub powered by a NX1000D amp, and the TV is a 77" LG OLED. The sub may end up changing depending on what we do for the rest of the system, but that is a lot easier to figure out. I don't want to go too crazy on this system, probably around $1,000 for a budget, but cheaper is better.

 

[TLS Guy]

First off, I have been on this forum for a LONG time but was unable to login so I just made a new account. My old user name is Rowdy S13 for anyone who may remember me.

Anyway, I have room in my house that I am kind of stuck on. It is a living room in a loft, so one entire side is wide open to the rest of the house. I originally got some in wall speakers for the front LCR, but there is all kinds of stuff inside the wall that has the TV on it. The room can only be laid out the way it is because of windows and the hallway. The first plan was to build some kind of false wall to bump out an area for the TV and speakers. I have been on the fence about this idea for a while. Then yesterday I was thinking about doing in ceiling fronts for ease of install. Then I was considering a LCR passive sound bar, and also on wall speakers.

This is a secondary system, I have another system in the basement. This is just daily driver, TV watching, some gaming, maybe a movie here or there. I can get specifics if anyone wants, but I have a Denon receiver, Oppo Blu-Ray player, rear speakers are 8" Monoprice in ceiling, the in walls I got were Monoprice with the ribbon tweeters. I have a sealed 15" Dayton sub powered by a NX1000D amp, and the TV is a 77" LG OLED. The sub may end up changing depending on what we do for the rest of the system, but that is a lot easier to figure out. I don't want to go too crazy on this system, probably around $1,000 for a budget, but cheaper is better.

Not ceiling speakers for sure.

The false wall idea is the best. That is what I did in our great room, which is also a secondary system. It is in a very large space and it powers it easily.

This is a very do-able install, and you could build the speakers or have them built. A member here Squshman, Has heard the system and was stunned at how good the sound was including the bass.

The space is also open to a wide stairway that goes to the upper level.

 

[BrokeEF]

Very nice set up! I will say I am a bit unsure of the in wall speakers I have. The rears, while different, sound pretty meh to me. I have them wired to the front channel and have played some music through them a handful of times. Could just be that I am feeding them a full range signal though. The fronts I got should be quite a bit nicer, but having never heard them I am unsure. I like how you built the sub into the setup! That is another idea I was kicking around with some kind of false wall/built in deal.

I dont have any pics of the space right now, but if you are looking at the TV the sub is in that right corner. The hallway is to the left of the TV. That is the only corner I can put the sub, the back wall of the room will be all couch, the right side has a sliding door (for now) and the left side has couch/railing. Because of that the wife was thinking we can incorporate it into the false wall/built in idea. The one possible BIG advantage to that is moving the gear back into the room. I currently have it all in a rack in a different space, but with no good RF options after Harmony remotes died off, control of everything is a concern.

Maybe I will start drawing something up to get a better idea. Also, while we are here, does anyone think center above the TV will be a real killer? I only ask because the wife would like to do one of those fake fireplace deals under the TV, and don't know if I want the TV high enough to accommodate that AND the center. Of course there are a million options for that so it could be a moot point.

 

[flyboylr45]

It’s not ideal but since this is a SECONDARY system, why not?

 

[TLS Guy]

Very nice set up! I will say I am a bit unsure of the in wall speakers I have. The rears, while different, sound pretty meh to me. I have them wired to the front channel and have played some music through them a handful of times. Could just be that I am feeding them a full range signal though. The fronts I got should be quite a bit nicer, but having never heard them I am unsure. I like how you built the sub into the setup! That is another idea I was kicking around with some kind of false wall/built in deal.

I dont have any pics of the space right now, but if you are looking at the TV the sub is in that right corner. The hallway is to the left of the TV. That is the only corner I can put the sub, the back wall of the room will be all couch, the right side has a sliding door (for now) and the left side has couch/railing. Because of that the wife was thinking we can incorporate it into the false wall/built in idea. The one possible BIG advantage to that is moving the gear back into the room. I currently have it all in a rack in a different space, but with no good RF options after Harmony remotes died off, control of everything is a concern.

Maybe I will start drawing something up to get a better idea. Also, while we are here, does anyone think center above the TV will be a real killer? I only ask because the wife would like to do one of those fake fireplace deals under the TV, and don't know if I want the TV high enough to accommodate that AND the center. Of course there are a million options for that so it could be a moot point.

You can put a center above the TV, as long as it is not too high. In my AV room I have the center above the TV, as otherwise it would not cover the room. It works just fine. Optimally the bottom of the TV should be around 42" from the floor.

Below the TV it would not cover the room well at all. The main driver, is coaxial and right above the TV and the front panel slopes down towards the listening area. This is one of the advantages of being able to design and build speakers to purpose. In this way the whole room becomes a continuous design continuum, with all concepts and aspects integrated.

 

[BrokeEF]

I only have old pics available right now but hopefully they get the ball rolling.

These are from when we fist moved in, but the layout is the same. The sub is in that right corner (right of the TV) where that cabinet is now. I will try and get a current pic later today. The new couch will be basically a U shape that goes along that entire wall opposite the TV. The side with the glass door is a chase, and the side along the railing is a loveseat. So like I said we are locked into this layout. There are also two in ceiling surrounds already installed.

 

[TLS Guy]

I only have old pics available right now but hopefully they get the ball rolling.

These are from when we fist moved in, but the layout is the same. The sub is in that right corner (right of the TV) where that cabinet is now. I will try and get a current pic later today. The new couch will be basically a U shape that goes along that entire wall opposite the TV. The side with the glass door is a chase, and the side along the railing is a loveseat. So like I said we are locked into this layout. There are also two in ceiling surrounds already installed.

 

[TLS Guy]

I would say the room is right for a good 2.1 system. That will give you the best results.

 

[Eppie]

I used to have in-ceiling surrounds installed like yours. It's not ideal but they do add some ambience and I thought it was better than no surrounds. I changed over to compact box speakers for side surrounds and prefer that to the overhead speakers. The overhead speakers were then moved further forward and do ATMOS duty now. Yours are too far back for ATMOS support.

If you only have electrical in the TV wall, then in-walls may still work. Only issue might be heating ducts or plumbing which are not easily moved. Depends on where the studs are and where the speakers need to go. If there is no plumbing or heating in the wall, I would mark out the studs and see if in-walls will work. If the Monoprice speakers are the THX models, those are ok in-walls. I have Paradigm in-walls in the living room and they are fine for casual TV and movie viewing.

If you need a false wall, it only has to be 2x4 construction to fit the in-wall speakers. Hopefully the speakers come with backer boxes to reduce noise bleeding into the room behind. You will still need to move the electrical into the false wall. That makes on-walls worth considering.

How wide is the credenza on the TV wall? Can you fit speaker stands with bookshelf speakers on either side? Given the length of the wall, TLS Guy may be right and 2 speakers in front is all you need.

 

[BrokeEF]

I used to have in-ceiling surrounds installed like yours. It's not ideal but they do add some ambience and I thought it was better than no surrounds. I changed over to compact box speakers for side surrounds and prefer that to the overhead speakers. The overhead speakers were then moved further forward and do ATMOS duty now. Yours are too far back for ATMOS support.

If you only have electrical in the TV wall, then in-walls may still work. Only issue might be heating ducts or plumbing which are not easily moved. Depends on where the studs are and where the speakers need to go. If there is no plumbing or heating in the wall, I would mark out the studs and see if in-walls will work. If the Monoprice speakers are the THX models, those are ok in-walls. I have Paradigm in-walls in the living room and they are fine for casual TV and movie viewing.

If you need a false wall, it only has to be 2x4 construction to fit the in-wall speakers. Hopefully the speakers come with backer boxes to reduce noise bleeding into the room behind. You will still need to move the electrical into the false wall. That makes on-walls worth considering.

How wide is the credenza on the TV wall? Can you fit speaker stands with bookshelf speakers on either side? Given the length of the wall, TLS Guy may be right and 2 speakers in front is all you need.

Thank you for the response. I will try and go over everything, you bring up some great points here.

The reason they are in ceiling is we have no wall to the left (when facing the TV) its open to the downstairs. I could do something on a stand, but neither of us liked that idea, and the new couch would not work with anything like that anyway. I also dont really see bothering to do atmos in this space, but I did consider it at one point. It would be easy to change later since its an attic above.

The wall with the TV has a little of everything in it. That is why this is a project for years now. The other side of that wall is a bathroom with 2 sinks and a shower/tub. Every single bay where a speaker would want to go has something in the way.

The original false wall build plan was 2x4 and I even got a bunch of them a while back. It looks like all of the built in fake fireplace deals are all meant for 2x6 depth. Neither is a big deal though, so I am not worried about that. I think the 2x6 setup would look better with the shelf on the right which is to conceal the sub and house the gear.

Currently there is nothing on that wall, just the TV. We did consider some kind of piece under the TV but I dont think the wife was finding anything she liked.

Speakers are not the THX ones. I can check when I am home, but I think its the Amber speakers?

Monoprice Amber In-Wall Speakers 8-inch 2-way Carbon Fiber with Ribbon Tweeter (pair) - Monoprice.com

Discover a level of audio only experienced by those with a "high‑end" budget for sound. Feel sound so true you do not hear a sound system, you are simply in the m

www.monoprice.com

I do have backer boxes on the in-ceiling but not for the in walls. I am not 100% married to these speakers though. I am sure I will install them, but if I don't like how they sound I will change em. I already told the wife I was worried about that.

I am not opposed to 2 good speakers, either in wall or on wall. The wife really doesn't want bookshelf or towers though. Only downside is I already have the rears installed, but I could reuse those somewhere else.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for the response. I will try and go over everything, you bring up some great points here.

The reason they are in ceiling is we have no wall to the left (when facing the TV) its open to the downstairs. I could do something on a stand, but neither of us liked that idea, and the new couch would not work with anything like that anyway. I also dont really see bothering to do atmos in this space, but I did consider it at one point. It would be easy to change later since its an attic above.

The wall with the TV has a little of everything in it. That is why this is a project for years now. The other side of that wall is a bathroom with 2 sinks and a shower/tub. Every single bay where a speaker would want to go has something in the way.

The original false wall build plan was 2x4 and I even got a bunch of them a while back. It looks like all of the built in fake fireplace deals are all meant for 2x6 depth. Neither is a big deal though, so I am not worried about that. I think the 2x6 setup would look better with the shelf on the right which is to conceal the sub and house the gear.

Currently there is nothing on that wall, just the TV. We did consider some kind of piece under the TV but I dont think the wife was finding anything she liked.

Speakers are not the THX ones. I can check when I am home, but I think its the Amber speakers?

Monoprice Amber In-Wall Speakers 8-inch 2-way Carbon Fiber with Ribbon Tweeter (pair) - Monoprice.com

Discover a level of audio only experienced by those with a "high‑end" budget for sound. Feel sound so true you do not hear a sound system, you are simply in the m

www.monoprice.com

I do have backer boxes on the in-ceiling but not for the in walls. I am not 100% married to these speakers though. I am sure I will install them, but if I don't like how they sound I will change em. I already told the wife I was worried about that.

I am not opposed to 2 good speakers, either in wall or on wall. The wife really doesn't want bookshelf or towers though. Only downside is I already have the rears installed, but I could reuse those somewhere else.

I have done lots of modelling on in walls. The issue is that the stud spacing is not wide enough to design and build a decent system. So it really takes a false wall, like my design and approach. You have a huge opening onto a large space and this is going to take some "horsepower".

False walls are really not that expensive, as 2 X 4s are cheap and so is sheetrock.

However, in your situation I really believe the 2.1 solution is your best option. As I always say, two really good speakers beats more lesser speakers by a country mile.

This is my two channel system in our family room, and it is a very satisfying rig.

 

[Wardog555]

There's a reason dolby guidelines exist. It's to place the speakers where they need to go.This is not a situation of place speakers where ever you feel like for convenience or anynother dumb personal issue you have.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Salesforce

dolby.my.salesforce.com

 

[BrokeEF]

There's a reason dolby guidelines exist. It's to place the speakers where they need to go.This is not a situation of place speakers where ever you feel like for convenience or anynother dumb personal issue you have.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Salesforce

dolby.my.salesforce.com

Well that is certainly a take. So I should definitely rebuild this room to exact Dolby guidelines or else I should have nothing at all. No in-between allowed. Got it. Thanks for the help!

 

[Eppie]

If the seating is primarily in front of the TV, 2 speakers can work well, creating a phantom centre channel. If there is seating off to the side, the centre speaker can help anchor dialogue to the TV, with the caveat that if the 3 speakers are too close together they can cause some interference. It's going to be a compromise either way since the right channel will have a wall reflecting sound, while the left channel has open space. That's similar to my setup but I find that the balance is ok in my room. If the right side reflections become an issue, some acoustic panels can help solve the issue (GIK Acoustics in Georgia has a good variety).

The Monoprice Amber look to be a decent speaker. It's very difficult to find measurements on in-walls. Gene from Audioholics has recommended Monitor Audio and I have had good experience with Paradigm but you current speakers may work out fine.

With all of that plumbing, looks like a false wall would be the way to go. On-walls could work since you could drop the wiring down from the attic space, but the only good on-walls I know of are from KEF and Focal, and those would be a lot more costly than your current speakers.

 

[pewternhrata]

I would say the room is right for a good 2.1 system. That will give you the best results.

Agree 100%
When I was in the townhouse with a completely open floorplan; I tried multiple 5.1 setups. The best enjoyment I got was 2.2 (SVS ultra shelves and 2 rsl speedwoofers) I honestly miss how good movies were with that simple setup

 

[Wardog555]

good on-walls

Bookshelf speakers with wall mounts

 

[Eppie]

I think the op already ruled out bookshelves as not meeting his spouse's desire for certain aesthetics.

 

[BrokeEF]

Well gentlemen the wife and I spent some time looking at and discussing options over the weekend. I think we are leaning toward doing some kind of stand/hutch whatever you want to call it under the TV. We are looking at something wider than the TV with a "fireplace" in it, and room for equipment on the sides. That would give us some options for speakers.

This now brings up new questions of course. I am not set on anything at all still, just throwing out examples. Would it be better to do SVS Prime Satellite speakers on the walls center of the TV screen. Or Say SVS Prime Bookshelf on top of the cabinet? I will also mention that there is a space for a possible center, but without knowing which one and the specs on the openings I am not sure if/what would go there.

The plan that got us down this path was a pair of the satellite speakers on the wall next to the TV. I am now considering some bookshelf speakers because most likely the deal under the TV will be further off the wall than the speakers.

I also realize that this has been all over the place, believe me. I have been trying to decide how best to set this room up since we first saw the house. Nothing is really a slam dunk due to the room layout, and overall aesthetics. It has been a back burner project, but we both want to get it done which is why there is renewed interest in it. So thank you guys for bearing with me, and for all of the advice.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well gentlemen the wife and I spent some time looking at and discussing options over the weekend. I think we are leaning toward doing some kind of stand/hutch whatever you want to call it under the TV. We are looking at something wider than the TV with a "fireplace" in it, and room for equipment on the sides. That would give us some options for speakers.

This now brings up new questions of course. I am not set on anything at all still, just throwing out examples. Would it be better to do SVS Prime Satellite speakers on the walls center of the TV screen. Or Say SVS Prime Bookshelf on top of the cabinet? I will also mention that there is a space for a possible center, but without knowing which one and the specs on the openings I am not sure if/what would go there.

The plan that got us down this path was a pair of the satellite speakers on the wall next to the TV. I am now considering some bookshelf speakers because most likely the deal under the TV will be further off the wall than the speakers.

I also realize that this has been all over the place, believe me. I have been trying to decide how best to set this room up since we first saw the house. Nothing is really a slam dunk due to the room layout, and overall aesthetics. It has been a back burner project, but we both want to get it done which is why there is renewed interest in it. So thank you guys for bearing with me, and for all of the advice.

Fireplaces under TVs are about the worst idea you can think of. They make heat, and electronics hates heat. If you do that your TV will have a very short life, and any other electronics close by.

I understand you want a system and a TV/sound system.

This is how you do it.

Variations on that theme anyway.

 

[BrokeEF]

Fireplaces under TVs are about the worst idea you can think of. They make heat, and electronics hates heat. If you do that your TV will have a very short life, and any other electronics close by.

I understand you want a system and a TV/sound system.

This is how you do it.

Variations on that theme anyway.

You are not wrong. We already have a real fireplace that we never use, so I really didn't expect this one to get much action either. I was more looking at that style because the wife likes em. Personally I think most of them don't look good. Anyway, I mentioned the concern to the wife yesterday and she agreed. Sounds like we are looking for a low, wide cabinet or whatever you want to call it now. I looked a little yesterday, but she was going to take over finding something she liked.

Which brings us back to speakers and their placement. Something on/in the furniture, or something on the wall? Again my instinct is to do something like the SVS Prime Satellite speakers on the wall as wide as possible and centered with the TV.