Looking for Opinions...

[Rutlanda]

I currently have the following gear in my HT: Denon 3803, Polk CS400i center, Angstrom Modular 2 surround and an HSU VTF-2. As you can see I need front speakers. I am somewhat torn between two options: 1. Buy a pair of Energy C-9 for $849.00 including shipping or 2. Buy a complete Ascend Acoustics system to include 340 mains and center with the 170s in the rear.
I use my system about 50/50 music/HT. The room is about 12 feet wide and 20 feet long. I have a $900-$1000 budget.
Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Aaron

 

[Tex-amp]

Have you heard either? Maybe order just a pair of 340s to audition to keep shipping costs down if you don't like them. Ascend will give you the package price if you keep them under their extender plan. I love my Ascends but haven't heard those Energys.

Also do you listen to any multi-channel music?

 

[Rutlanda]

I have heard the Energy C-7s and they are nice. The C-9 has bigger bass drivers. I have never heard the Ascends, But I talked to Dave this week and I can get the whole Ascend system, b-stock, for $1003. That's a good idea to just order the 340s and see what I think. I plan to get a universal player soon, so multi-channel music is definitely a consideration.

 

[Shinerman]

Two thoughts.

1st, you really need a matching center channel and it appears the Ascends would be less expensive since the $1003 includes a center. The matching Energy center was about $400 from what I remember. The Ascends are very nice speakers according to the rave reviews so I don't think you would be disappointed.

2nd, I really liked the Energy C9's when I was shopping for speakers. They were a very strong second place for me and I ended up buying my Boston's due to the huge discount I got through my companies discount program with a Boston supplier. I got all 6 speakers for the price of the C9's. The Bostons and Energy C9's were my two finalist and price aside were a toss up for me.

I say get the ascends and listen to them. If you are happy, stick with them.

Shinerman

 

[Tex-amp]

If you're planning to jump into multi-channel music then a timbre match all around is very important. I'd get a pair of Ascends and see what you think.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I have heard the Energy C-7s and they are nice. The C-9 has bigger bass drivers. I have never heard the Ascends, But I talked to Dave this week and I can get the whole Ascend system, b-stock, for $1003. That's a good idea to just order the 340s and see what I think. I plan to get a universal player soon, so multi-channel music is definitely a consideration.

How much $$ are you out if you return the Ascends? Did they quote you shipping? I'm a little skeptical of someone selling center channel speakers flipped on their sides and calling them "mains." I can almost guarantee you the Venturi CLR-S62's on their sides sound as good or better than these vertical Ascends, and at $125 shipped, you can have 7 of them for $875. The Ascend's don't feature any ground breaking drivers or crossovers, and there's nothing special about the cabinet. Call me nuts, but I think they are more glitz then glamour. PS, I like the tune played on the Angstrom site.

www.epinions.com/pr-Speakers_BIC_America_Venturi_DV62CLR_S_Center_Channel_Speaker_DV_62CLRS/display_~reviews

www.bicamerica.com/CENTERS.htm

 

[silversurfer]

Did you read the Ascend site or do any research? The center isn't just flipped....there is a different crossover and the tweeter's dispertion lens is turned 90 degrees. Shipping costs are also listed on the site. It is smarter to buy just a pair if you are worried about shipping them back. If you are skeptical, that is fine, but at least do some reading/research first and truly be impartial. The answers are all there.

And since when did having ground breaking drivers, crossovers, and cabinets become a pre-req for good sound? Above all, it seems Ascend uses quality parts and nothing "off the shelf". Someone has done a lot of engineering on the speakers.

Shinerman,
The one thing those C-9's will do is go deeper in the bass than the Ascends, but since you have a good sub, that is negated.

 

[Tex-amp]

You'd better get the Ed Frias modded BICs if you want to hang with the Ascends.

 

[Tex-amp]

http://audioreview.com/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx#reviews

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

http://audioreview.com/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx#reviews

I'm seeing a lot of "no low end." A lot of reviewers are relying on the sub to make up for a lack of bass. It's nice to have some mid bass in your drivers. I'm not knocking the Ascends for what they are, but moreso their price. I've always been skeptical on speakers you buy site unseen. If enough members here have them and chime in with positive results, then I will tend to agree. If you have a pair and you like them, great. I have a set of older Bics. No Ed Frias crossovers, either. My DV62's have superb bass for a 6.5" driver. Ask MacMN, he just bought an entire set of the Venturi line and is reviewing them this week. He'll pull the drivers, crossovers, foam, etc... to see how they are put together.

One other thing - the Venturi cabinets aren't made of plastic.

 

[Rutlanda]

Thanks

Thanks for your thoughts guys.
I have read the entire Ascend website, forum included. I am still some what undecided. I think I will order the 340s and give them a listen. Can't hurt, and it will only cost about $40 to send them back if I don't like them. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks again.

 

[silversurfer]

I'm seeing a lot of "no low end." A lot of reviewers are relying on the sub to make up for a lack of bass. It's nice to have some mid bass in your drivers. I'm not knocking the Ascends for what they are, but moreso their price. I've always been skeptical on speakers you buy site unseen. If enough members here have them and chime in with positive results, then I will tend to agree. If you have a pair and you like them, great. I have a set of older Bics. No Ed Frias crossovers, either. My DV62's have superb bass for a 6.5" driver. Ask MacMN, he just bought an entire set of the Venturi line and is reviewing them this week. He'll pull the drivers, crossovers, foam, etc... to see how they are put together.

One other thing - the Venturi cabinets aren't made of plastic.

You are only focusing on the negatives you can percieve.

Your speakers do not have anything "ground breaking". So if you follow your thinking, they must not sound good. I won't knock the Venturi's because I haven't heard them, but you have to admit BIC currently is not known for hi-end sound...not even mid-end.

And because MacMN bought a set for review makes your Venturi's good? Have you read the Ascend reviews, professional and customer? You want to give credit to MacMN, why not the Ascend reviews?

You may not be knocking the Ascends, but you certainly are not being unbiased. Heck...if you bothered to research you would know that the cabinets are not plastic and that they are meant to be used with a sub.

Did you know traditional B&M brands are marked up 40-60%? Factor that into the cost of the Venturi's.

Like I posted before, if you want to be skeptical.....no problem. But at least be fair in what you read and give credit to.

 

[silversurfer]

Thanks for your thoughts guys.
I have read the entire Ascend website, forum included. I am still some what undecided. I think I will order the 340s and give them a listen. Can't hurt, and it will only cost about $40 to send them back if I don't like them. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thanks again.

As long as you are researching, that is the key. I understand not wanting to take a chance.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You are only focusing on the negatives you can percieve.

Your speakers do not have anything "ground breaking". So if you follow your thinking, they must not sound good. I won't knock the Venturi's because I haven't heard them, but you have to admit BIC currently is not known for hi-end sound...not even mid-end.

And because MacMN bought a set for review makes your Venturi's good? Have you read the Ascend reviews, professional and customer? You want to give credit to MacMN, why not the Ascend reviews?

You may not be knocking the Ascends, but you certainly are not being unbiased. Heck...if you bothered to research you would know that the cabinets are not plastic and that they are meant to be used with a sub.

Did you know traditional B&M brands are marked up 40-60%? Factor that into the cost of the Venturi's.

Like I posted before, if you want to be skeptical.....no problem. But at least be fair in what you read and give credit to.

You get flustered too easily. Relax, this is a forum. Opinions differ. Have you head the term "agree to disagree?"

My speakers are blood sucking, power thirsty Polk's. My 20 yr old Venturi 62 bookshelf speakers that were purchased in college are in Toledo. Gave them to a younger brother. What's ground breaking is their price point. Like Athena's, they offer a lot for the money. Neither speaker we are discussing are high end. Define low end for me, please. KLH, Koss, Aiwa? Do you honestly think the Venturi line compares to those? C'mon.

I have known MacManMN since 1985. He is an accomplished EE, is a senior manager, and works on high level government contracts. He's probably one of the brightest guys on this forum. When he completes his review of the Venturi line (he did not purchase these for himself), there is no doubt in my mind it will be unbiased.

Ascend recommends the highly regarded subwoofers from Hsu Research to fill out the bottom end of their setup, and sells a selection of them through their website. I'll bet $100 you didn't know Dr. Poh Ser Hsu helped design some of the woofers for BIC. Many of the Canadian dealers sell BIC along side HSU for their outstanding value.

What is a B&M brand? Brick and mortar stores selling their own version of speakers? Name some other than Bose and Bang & Olufsen. If the markup was only 40-60% on these so called store brands, they'd be going out of business. Try 500% plus.

There are some glowing reviews on the Ascends. I'm sure they are solid speakers. As for the dispersion lens and different (or adjusted) crossover, they still look like center's on their sides. Our friend here will order them, and hopefully will enjoy them as much as the other reviewers had. The plastic comment was a joke.

I tried looking them up at www.epinions.com and www.cnet.com, and was surprised at the number of reviews at these two sites which feature almost all of the other brands we discuss on the forums:
www.epinions.com/Home_Theater_Speakers_and_Subwoofers--~all-9688_brand
http://cnet.search.com/search?page=5&q=speakers&ob=-mfcName&nodeid=7869&format=customlayout&channel=2&cat=313&mode=products&allfields=0&k=55020644
http://reviews.cnet.com/4502-6467_7-0.html?tag=ont.sp&cdi=5503680

 

[silversurfer]

You get flustered too easily. Relax, this is a forum. Opinions differ. Have you head the term "agree to disagree?"

My speakers are blood sucking, power thirsty Polk's. My 20 yr old Venturi 62 bookshelf speakers that were purchased in college are in Toledo. Gave them to a younger brother. What's ground breaking is their price point. Like Athena's, they offer a lot for the money. Neither speaker we are discussing are high end. Define low end for me, please. KLH, Koss, Aiwa? Do you honestly think the Venturi line compares to those? C'mon.

I have known MacManMN since 1985. He is an accomplished EE, is a senior manager, and works on high level government contracts. He's probably one of the brightest guys on this forum. When he completes his review of the Venturi line (he did not purchase these for himself), there is no doubt in my mind it will be unbiased.

Ascend recommends the highly regarded subwoofers from Hsu Research to fill out the bottom end of their setup, and sells a selection of them through their website. I'll bet $100 you didn't know Dr. Poh Ser Hsu helped design some of the woofers for BIC. Many of the Canadian dealers sell BIC along side HSU for their outstanding value.

What is a B&M brand? Brick and mortar stores selling their own version of speakers? Name some other than Bose and Bang & Olufsen. If the markup was only 40-60% on these so called store brands, they'd be going out of business. Try 500% plus.

There are some glowing reviews on the Ascends. I'm sure they are solid speakers. As for the dispersion lens and different (or adjusted) crossover, they still look like center's on their sides. Our friend here will order them, and hopefully will enjoy them as much as the other reviewers had. The plastic comment was a joke.

I tried looking them up at www.epinions.com and www.cnet.com, and was surprised at the number of reviews at these two sites which feature almost all of the other brands we discuss on the forums:
www.epinions.com/Home_Theater_Speakers_and_Subwoofers--~all-9688_brand
http://cnet.search.com/search?page=5&q=speakers&ob=-mfcName&nodeid=7869&format=customlayout&channel=2&cat=313&mode=products&allfields=0&k=55020644
http://reviews.cnet.com/4502-6467_7-0.html?tag=ont.sp&cdi=5503680

Flustered? No. But it does bother me when someone claims to be unbiased and does not give equal weighting to positives and negative.

I'll take that bet on Dr. Hsu, because I did know, but he was not involved until the last year or two. I did not know about BIC and Hsu being sold side by side in Canada. I am sure that is a product of the partnership between the two. Their demo rooms at CES were side by side this year.

the 40-60% is dealer markup, but from actual costs, I agree, 500% and more.. Brick and Mortar brands.....Paradigm, Polk, Boston Acoustics, etc, as opposed to internet direct like Ascend, Axiom, Aperion, Rocket.

As for MacMN...I am sure he is a very knowledgeable person...but does that mean he is better ears than everyone else, of that his subjective preferences are more correct?

Do you regard epinions and cnet over audio specific sites? Some of the brands I think you are referring to do not have reviews on audio specific sites.

As for differing opinions, yes we can agree to disagree, but you were making statements that were not and are not true.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Flustered? No. But it does bother me when someone claims to be unbiased and does not give equal weighting to positives and negative.

You claimed BIC as not high end or even mid end. Wheres the weight?

I'll take that bet on Dr. Hsu, because I did know, but he was not involved until the last year or two. I did not know about BIC and Hsu being sold side by side in Canada. I am sure that is a product of the partnership between the two. Their demo rooms at CES were side by side this year.

I'm impressed. The check is in the mail.

the 40-60% is dealer markup, but from actual costs, I agree, 500% and more.. Brick and Mortar brands.....Paradigm, Polk, Boston Acoustics, etc, as opposed to internet direct like Ascend, Axiom, Aperion, Rocket.

I thought Brick and Mortar referred to your local retail shops, not where the mfg. decides to sell the product. All the mfg's listed above have warehouses. They can all be ordered online. Your so-called brick and mortar brands can be had online for quite a bit less than at my brick and mortar local retail stores.


As for MacMN...I am sure he is a very knowledgeable person...but does that mean he is better ears than everyone else, of that his subjective preferences are more correct?

For that matter, are anyones? Who else matters other than the actual purchaser? People who read reviews should know to look for the negatives first. Most reviews come from the actual buyer, and they most always will give glowing reviews. You need to go by independant, well known sites and periodicals to get an honest review - and even then, they will be biased if advertising dollars come into play. If you go to any speakers' website, they will show glowing reviews. You'd think they were the best thing since sliced bread, until you went to the next mfg's site. Show me a negative review on Axiom, Aperion, or Ascend site (or BIC for that matter). Polk is the one company that allows negative reviews on their site. They are not the best speaker, but at least they are honest.

Do you regard epinions and cnet over audio specific sites? Some of the brands I think you are referring to do not have reviews on audio specific sites.

Independant reviews versus reviews on the Ascend site - yes. The two I listed will show you more honest reviews on many things individuals have purchased as opposed to brand specific items. Once you get to advertising loaded, brand specific review sites, you'll notice very little negative reviewing. Audioholics is one site that is not afraid to post the problems with equipment. Once they stop, every new forum member here will believe every glowing review they read to be true.

As for differing opinions, yes we can agree to disagree, but you were making statements that were not and are not true.

Read my quotes again. I still say they flipped the center on the side, be it they may have made a $5 change in a difussor or different crossover. I said the Venturi's weren't plastic. They aren't.

 

[Tex-amp]

The Ascend cabinet is MDF with a vinyl wrap just not a wood grain vinyl like the BICs. It is quite possible that BIC's and Ascend's cabinet come out of the same shop in China. The Ascends are designed from the get go to be used with a sub. A design philosophy that the designer brought with him from his M&K days. The 170s go cleanly into the upper 60s, a 80hz crossover will be fine.

170's listening window measuements from the NRC. http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/ascend_cbm170/

Are my Longhorns playing your guys there or here this year? I hear this will be the last big out of conference series anywhere since they have removed strength of schedule from the BCS formula. The Longhorn QB can run like Michael Vick but can't throw as well. I guess you watched him single handedly beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl.

 

[silversurfer]

You claimed BIC as not high end or even mid end. Wheres the weight?

I said BIC is not considered hi-end or mid-end. Are they? Can you show me?

I'm impressed. The check is in the mail.

Yeah...right.

I thought Brick and Mortar referred to your local retail shops, not where the mfg. decides to sell the product. All the mfg's listed above have warehouses. They can all be ordered online. Your so-called brick and mortar brands can be had online for quite a bit less than at my brick and mortar local retail stores.

Maybe I should have worded internet direct as manufacturer direct.

For that matter, are anyones? Who else matters other than the actual purchaser? People who read reviews should know to look for the negatives first. Most reviews come from the actual buyer, and they most always will give glowing reviews. You need to go by independant, well known sites and periodicals to get an honest review - and even then, they will be biased if advertising dollars come into play. If you go to any speakers' website, they will show glowing reviews. You'd think they were the best thing since sliced bread, until you went to the next mfg's site. Show me a negative review on Axiom, Aperion, or Ascend site (or BIC for that matter). Polk is the one company that allows negative reviews on their site. They are not the best speaker, but at least they are honest.

I agree with every point. As far as Ascend goes, they are independent professional reviews out there....and on sites where Ascend spends no advertising money. Are you familiar with the sites that Ascends are reviewed on? How do you feel about Soundstage and Sensible Sound?

Independant reviews versus reviews on the Ascend site - yes. The two I listed will show you more honest reviews on many things individuals have purchased as opposed to brand specific items. Once you get to advertising loaded, brand specific review sites, you'll notice very little negative reviewing. Audioholics is one site that is not afraid to post the problems with equipment. Once they stop, every new forum member here will believe every glowing review they read to be true.

Once again, Ascend has independent professional reviews on sites where they spend no advertising money.

Read my quotes again. I still say they flipped the center on the side, be it they may have made a $5 change in a difussor or different crossover. I said the Venturi's weren't plastic. They aren't.

Your first quote about the center on it side make no mention of the diffusor or crossover change.

 

[JohnnyCasaba]

I'm a little skeptical of someone selling center channel speakers flipped on their sides and calling them "mains."

I guess you must be skeptical of NHT, Triad, Totem Acoustics and Von Schweikert Audio too!


http://www.vonschweikert.com/lcr15.html

http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/products/homeTheatre_MiteCen.htm

http://www.nhthifi.com/p-ht-evolution.html

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/productmap.html

 

[Tex-amp]

Ascend does not advertise anywhere. The only ad I've ever seen is from an authorized on-line re-seller.

I guess he does not buy into the philosophy of three indentical speakers across the front giving the most seamless sound as all have the exact same timbre.

The crossover is about design skill not part cost.