Looking for a truly simple set up...

[sengert]

A general question for everyone to consider...

I've been desiring a truly simple set up lately. My wife is very frustrated by the complexity involved in having the TV involved with our Surround Sound/Stereo system. Specifically she thinks it is absurd that to sit down and watch the news we have to fire up everything. To this I have no reply because to date I do not know of a system that allows me to have what I think of as a truly simple set up.

What I'd like to see, is all wiring running through the central hub of the Pre-Pros/Reciever. This allows for the least amount of wiring and most straight forward wiring, ins and outs. But, I envision the system being "smart" in that when we select TV it would only turn on the satelite reciever and the Television (throughput the signal in the "hub" without turning on all of the Amps and speakers). Then of course, when we select DVD, it should turn on everything, or when we select CD, etc.

Certainly the only exception I can see to needing the full system on when we're watching TV is the rare occasion we role on over to HBO for a movie.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this matter? Are there any systems capable of this? Would a smarter remote ba able to handle "everything"?

Thanks,

T.

 

[Exit]

I don’t know how current your system is, because if you can’t process HDMI in your receiver, then I have a simple hookup for you. Run the HDMI from each source to the TV. If need be you can get a remote controlled switch to have more HDMI connections. From each source, run an optical (toslink) cable to an optical input on your receiver. Now you can use the TV without the receiver being on for non-critical listening. If you want, you can turn the receiver on and play Dolby 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 from your sources. When you do use the receiver, you turn the TV volume down to zero. This is the way I do it now. If you have the latest audio format processing capability, then you probably would not be interested in this hookup.

 

[mytzen]

I am sure that you easily find a universal remote that could meet your needs. Look at Logitech Harmony remotes, you can set up activities with them such as "watch TV" and "watch a DVD". The setup is done on your computer and easy to understand.

When you press the TV button the remote will know to only turn on the TV and the satellite box. For DVD you can set it up so that the DVD player, receiver, and TV turn on. I am sure that you can also program it to mute the TV sound when you press the watch DVD button.


-Matt

 

[MDS]

A good universal remote definitely simplifies things. I press one button turn everything on and it really doesn't get any simpler than that.

What makes it complicated is when you want to only use the TV in some instances and the whole audio setup in other instances. That makes the wiring more difficult and depends a lot on the capabilities of your devices. If you get that straight a universal remote can still automate it all for you.

I've just never understood the idea that it is 'absurd to have to to turn everything on'. To watch TV you have to have the TV and the cable box on so what's the big deal to also turn on one more device (the receiver)?

 

[trnqk7]

I agree with MDS-besides, with universal remote, even though everything is "on" it still only takes one button press to do it-therefore, it's still incredibly simple! You just can't go wrong with that-unless you're sig. other is secretly trying to tell you she just doesn't like the surround sound in the first place and is pushing to get rid of it without actually saying anything....hopefully that's not the case

 

[Highbar]

You just need to get the wiring right. Once you get all that figured out it's simple, for just TV watching I run my video straight to the TV (no reason to run it through the receiver) with audio and then run the digital out to the receiver so I can listen to surround if I want.

I personal find watching standard TV with the whole system on annoying. I just don't like the processed surround, I prefer just straight stereo.

As for having to turn everything on, invest in a good remote and you're problems will disappear. One button does everything.

T

 

[Nomo]

I've just never understood the idea that it is 'absurd to have to to turn everything on'. To watch TV you have to have the TV and the cable box on so what's the big deal to also turn on one more device (the receiver)?

I guess I'm on other side of that arguement.
My position on that is: "If it doesn't need to be on, why have it on?"
For at least 1/2 of my cable watching I choose, or it has been suggested to listen through the TV speakers. My TV's speakers do just fine for the morning news and for many shows recored in SD on the DVR.
I just don't see a reason to put wear on the reciever if I'm not going to actually use it.

I do agree that a decent universal remote will make things a bit simpler when properly set-up.

 

[sengert]

Nomo's got my vision/question correct!

I guess I'm on other side of that arguement.
My position on that is: "If it doesn't need to be on, why have it on?"
For at least 1/2 of my cable watching I choose, or it has been suggested to listen through the TV speakers. My TV's speakers do just fine for the morning news and for many shows recored in SD on the DVR.
I just don't see a reason to put wear on the reciever if I'm not going to actually use it.

I do agree that a decent universal remote will make things a bit simpler when properly set-up.

The whole point is that recievers will power up and sit drawing power just to pass the signal through from satelite to TV. This is assuming it is wired in the most efficient way without having to do any "work arounds"... This has always just seemed silly to me. So, are there any Recievers or Pre-Amps out there that are smart enough to pass through the signal without powering "everything up" and still allow for the cleanest wiring set up.

The Pre-amp concept is best suited for this situation... Back when I was up to speed though, pre-amps were severely lacking in features versus recievers but were excellent sound-wise.

How would a modern "smart" remote be able to solve this issue? Wouldn't it still require everything to be turned on in order to allow the signal to pass through the reciever/pre-amp?

T.

 

[trnqk7]

Yes, it would. I don't understand the comment a few posts up about "processed" sound...most receivers strive to not "process" the sound and make it sound the way it was intended. If you do have an issue with a DSP, either turn it off, try a different one, or go into a "Direct" type mode (my Denon has this, not sure if it's called that on other brands) that does no signal processing at all-just passes it through to the amps. I find it quite enjoyable to watch shows in Dolby Digital when available (sports can be quite amazing as the crowd will completely envelope you when they cheer) and just leave it to direct or stereo for the news and such. Either you want simple, one button operation with the receiver, etc. or you want a more complicated work around I'm afraid.

 

[MDS]

How would a modern "smart" remote be able to solve this issue? Wouldn't it still require everything to be turned on in order to allow the signal to pass through the reciever/pre-amp?

T.

A receiver will not pass the audio or video if it is turned off (standby mode). If you want to watch TV without the receiver you end up using multiple inputs on the TV - one for the direct connection to the sat/cable box and one for the connection from the receiver. You have to switch the input on the TV depending on whether you want the signal from the sat box or the receiver and that can be automated with a macro on a universal remote.

 

[Pyrrho]

I guess I'm on other side of that arguement.
My position on that is: "If it doesn't need to be on, why have it on?"
For at least 1/2 of my cable watching I choose, or it has been suggested to listen through the TV speakers. My TV's speakers do just fine for the morning news and for many shows recored in SD on the DVR.
I just don't see a reason to put wear on the reciever if I'm not going to actually use it.

I do agree that a decent universal remote will make things a bit simpler when properly set-up.

You need not worry about "wear" on a receiver. Assuming a decent design, and assuming you are not blocking the ventilation or pouring water into it, using it should not make much difference regarding the life of the unit. Simple age will cause deterioration, and that will happen regardless of whether it is off or on. Besides, with modern A/V receivers, unless they are abused, they generally become obsolete long before they fail.

But if you don't want it on all of the time with your TV, then I strongly suggest you switch your devices with the TV, not the receiver, so you do not have everything going to the receiver first (that is, have everything hooked up to the TV, and use the digital sound output of the TV to send sound to the receiver). That way, you can leave the receiver off if you wish.

 

[Davemcc]

Cliff notes: A cheap Harmony remote will simplify the operation of the system and make your wife very happy. If you try not to use the receiver, it will greatly complicate the wiring of the system and increase the complexity of switching multiple sources on multiple devices depending on what you want to do that particular day, upsetting the wife. Switching sources in the receiver is intended to simplify operation and it does, especially with a universal remote.

 

[autoboy]

Well, it looks like there are a few ways at doing this

1. Route all video to your TV and route the analog audio out to the TV and the digital audio out to the receiver. You can just use the TV speakers or turn on the receiver and use the 5.1. I think this way is stupid because it wastes your investment in your audio system for lots of sources and it is complicated. Also, when you turn on the receiver you need to remember to mute the TV speakers. But this solution works and I used to use it as well.

2. Route all video to your TV and route all audio through the TV to the digital out from the TV. This simplifies the wiring and makes your receiver into a dumb amp but can work ok. You still have to mute the TV and most TVs I have seen won't pass AC3 and DTS back out the digital out. They process the signal and pass 2 channel PCM. You lose all the surround information and going with PLII movie can't get it back for you. Your TV may be different but mine only pass 2 channel.

3. Universal remote. The Harmony One is awesome, but the cheaper Harmony remotes also do a great job. I can get my sig to learn it no problem. Now all your sources get the advantage of that expensive system, you can run PLII movie on all your 2 channel sources which I like better than stereo because it anchors the audio to the TV and you don't have a bunch of remotes to mess with. The negatives are that it costs $100 to get one and you have to program it. I never seem to be content with my button layouts. (I have way too many sources so this makes it more complicated)

4. Ditch the surround and get a 2.0 or 2.1 system. I do this for my extra TVs. You can get a good 2 channel amp for $100, hook it up to some nice speakers and maybe a sub, and then hook the amp to the stereo out from the TV. The amp turns on automatically when it gets a signal from the TV and your TV now handles all the switching for the cable box, DVD player, etc and the wife never needs to learn anything new. The downsides are that your lose surround, and the audio out from TVs is not the best source. Pick your solution.

 

[sengert]

Thanks, and clarity on #3?

Well, it looks like there are a few ways at doing this

3. Universal remote. The Harmony One is awesome, but the cheaper Harmony remotes also do a great job. I can get my sig to learn it no problem. Now all your sources get the advantage of that expensive system, you can run PLII movie on all your 2 channel sources which I like better than stereo because it anchors the audio to the TV and you don't have a bunch of remotes to mess with. The negatives are that it costs $100 to get one and you have to program it. I never seem to be content with my button layouts. (I have way too many sources so this makes it more complicated)

First off... Thanks to everyone! I've already been learning quite a bit, and its obvious that I still have a ways to go, especially since there are a lot more formats and standards out there being handled by newer and more capable devices. For instance, I didn't even every think or know that the TV could just be a "pass through" conduit of sorts for signals! HA! Guess I should be looking at the TV a little more as a smart device than just a monitor.

OK. Can you explain #3 a little more. In particular what wires do you have running where then? I like the idea of the Harmony remote and am thinking it will help the wife scenario GREATLY!!! But, then how do I wire that? If I got it right I run something like HDMI out from the satellite box to the receiver but then I run normal RCA (PLII?) up to the TV with perhaps S-video...

Now, I'm thinking of another question... switching in a receiver, does that imply the pass through like what I'm asking for? Or does that just mean it allows multiple sources and you pick one? I've seen this in reference to HDMI. Yeah, ok, if I need to go read a primer on HDMI I'll go do that. Sorry if that last question is a wast of time.

Thanks again to everyone.
sengert

 

[MDS]

OK. Can you explain #3 a little more. In particular what wires do you have running where then? I like the idea of the Harmony remote and am thinking it will help the wife scenario GREATLY!!! But, then how do I wire that? If I got it right I run something like HDMI out from the satellite box to the receiver but then I run normal RCA (PLII?) up to the TV with perhaps S-video...

All audio and video goes to the receiver and only video from the receiver to the TV. If you were using HDMI, it would be HDMI to the receiver and HDMI from the receiver to the TV. The receiver switches audio when video switches so you never have to change the input on the TV.

Now, I'm thinking of another question... switching in a receiver, does that imply the pass through like what I'm asking for? Or does that just mean it allows multiple sources and you pick one?

In the normal sense 'switching' means pick one of many sources as you've described. If you have everything connected to the receiver as above when you select DVD on the receiver, it plays the audio from the DVD player and sends the video from the DVD player to the TV. Switch to Cable (or whatever) and it switches the audio and video to whatever is coming in to the input marked Cable.

In the HDMI world it gets more confusing. 'Switching' is used to describe a receiver that can act as a repeater; ie strip out the audio portion from the HDMI cable and process it and then send the video on to the TV. 'Pass-thru' is used to describe a receiver that cannot process the audio but only passes the video through to the display; you need a separate audio connection. Lower priced receivers are often pass-thru only.

Both 'switching' and 'pass-thru' HDMI receivers switch between inputs in the normal definition of the term.

 

[Davemcc]

OK. Can you explain #3 a little more. In particular what wires do you have running where then? I like the idea of the Harmony remote and am thinking it will help the wife scenario GREATLY!!! But, then how do I wire that? If I got it right I run something like HDMI out from the satellite box to the receiver but then I run normal RCA (PLII?) up to the TV with perhaps S-video...

Yes, you could do exactly that, but I would suggest component video to the TV rather than S-video to retain HD quality.

The beauty of the Harmony remote is that you can program both ways to watch TV into the remote. Watching TV can be programmed as an activity using the receiver, then you can also add another activity button to watch TV without the receiver, along with all the other usual activities, watch a movie, listen to music, etc. All these activities become, literally, a one button operation.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

How about a one-box system, such as those made by NAD and Adcom? It would be hard to get much simpler than that!

 

[3db]

A general question for everyone to consider...

I've been desiring a truly simple set up lately. My wife is very frustrated by the complexity involved in having the TV involved with our Surround Sound/Stereo system. Specifically she thinks it is absurd that to sit down and watch the news we have to fire up everything. To this I have no reply because to date I do not know of a system that allows me to have what I think of as a truly simple set up.

What I'd like to see, is all wiring running through the central hub of the Pre-Pros/Reciever. This allows for the least amount of wiring and most straight forward wiring, ins and outs. But, I envision the system being "smart" in that when we select TV it would only turn on the satelite reciever and the Television (throughput the signal in the "hub" without turning on all of the Amps and speakers). Then of course, when we select DVD, it should turn on everything, or when we select CD, etc.

Certainly the only exception I can see to needing the full system on when we're watching TV is the rare occasion we role on over to HBO for a movie.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this matter? Are there any systems capable of this? Would a smarter remote ba able to handle "everything"?

Thanks,

T.

No disrespect meant to your wife but what is it with wives in general with HT remotes and systems in general? I would think cutting out a pattern and making clothes which is a 3 dimensional thing is waaaaaaaaaaaayyy more difficult then learning what buttons to push on HT remote. I just don't get it.

 

[Davemcc]

No disrespect meant to your wife but what is it with wives in general with HT remotes and systems in general? I would think cutting out a pattern and making clothes which is a 3 dimensional thing is waaaaaaaaaaaayyy more difficult then learning what buttons to push on HT remote. I just don't get it.

My wife only ever uses the Harmony, but to be fair she is also the one that does the online programming of the remote and has customized the buttons to her taste.

 

[autoboy]

Maybe we could be more specific with your questions if you posted your hardware on this thread.