Looking for a new sub. please help

[whubbard]

Well right now Im looking at putting together a 15" MK III dayton sub, with a 1000W dayton amp. I feel like this will do much better than the eD. I will then build, (hopefully with some help) a nice sub box, i don't care how long it takes to make it perfect. Only thing I'm wondering now...
is there:
a better $200 driver?
a better $400 amp?


....hehe, now annunaki, your majesty , if you were willing to help out...I would be oh so happy!!! (If your willing to...I don't care how complicated the design is ill build it!!)

I'm also still a bit confused on the ported thing. I keep reading, and now it seems like it is better, in terms of sound to have it ported. But then I'm afraid I'll get it wrong...
Bass Reflex looks like what I want to do, yes?

 

[annunaki]

Bass reflex, Ported, vented are all the same thing, just different terms.

Are you using the sub more for movies or for music? What type of main speakers will be used with the sub?

If you can find one cheap enough, the JL Audio 15W3v2 will make an unbelievable sub for the house with 500 watts rms. Not only will it be absurdly accurate but it will play very deep with lots of authority. Yes it is a car sub but that is neither here nor there.

I will help you out if you want the help.

 

[whubbard]

The sub is much more for music...basically 90% music, 10% movies.

The main speakers are going to be bought this comming summer when I should have a good $3000+ to spend on them. At first I thought I would just spend $1000 on and make do, but now I wan the system to be great, not just good. So I'm basically going to spend about $1,750 on the fronts/center, and then the other $1,250 on the back 4. So they will be pretty nice speakers.

Also I'm not sure if you noticed, but I went ahead and got the 1000W amp...if this wont make a difference please let me know (I do like to crank the bass!)

 

[annunaki]

1000 watts is always a good thing. However, you could get 2500 watts rms with a behringer for only $350.00!!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=248-747

If I were you I would cancel my order and order one of these bad boys. You will have more power than you will ever need AND if you ever upgrade your sub you won't have to upgrade the amp.

The 1000 watt plate amp is a great amplifier though. I did not know you purchased it already. See if you can cancel your order. You will just need some 1/4" to RCA or XLR to RCA converters (female RCA to 1/4" male or male XLR) when you get the Behringer.

 

[annunaki]

The sub is much more for music...basically 90% music, 10% movies.

The main speakers are going to be bought this comming summer when I should have a good $3000+ to spend on them. At first I thought I would just spend $1000 on and make do, but now I wan the system to be great, not just good. So I'm basically going to spend about $1,750 on the fronts/center, and then the other $1,250 on the back 4. So they will be pretty nice speakers.

Also I'm not sure if you noticed, but I went ahead and got the 1000W amp...if this wont make a difference please let me know (I do like to crank the bass!)

I would audition the new B&W 600 series speakers as they would fit your budget nicely.

 

[whubbard]

I would audition the new B&W 600 series speakers as they would fit your budget nicely.

Funny you say that....I was mainly considering B&Ws for my choice. Somebody recomended something else for $1000 for the front...but since I upped the budget...they were one of my main chioce.

1000 watts is always a good thing. However, you could get 2500 watts rms with a behringer for only $350.00!!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-747

If I were you I would cancel my order and order one of these bad boys. You will have more power than you will ever need AND if you ever upgrade your sub you won't have to upgrade the amp.

The 1000 watt plate amp is a great amplifier though. I did not know you purchased it already. See if you can cancel your order. You will just need some 1/4" to RCA or XLR to RCA converters (female RCA to 1/4" male or male XLR) when you get the Behringer.

Oh, i didn't buy it yet. Just added it too my list. But, I'm still think i want to stick with the dayton, i agree that its great that it will be able to provide more power, but I really don't need any more power (hopefully i wont ever), and the other thing is that it seems like the dayton is a much higher quality amp.

I'm assuming though that I will need to make sure I don't push it to 1,200 if I get the dayton driver.

The only thing I don't get is why the JL driver can only due 500 watts without doing into the 'danger' area. Wouldn't I be better of with a driver that is in the 1000W range?

 

[annunaki]

1000 watts on that driver with responsible use will be very impressive. It is always nice to have headroom available for dynamic capability.

The behringer is an amplifier of great build quality and one of the best values available in all the amp world.

The JL sub is very efficient at turning power into output. It is about the design. it does not need 1000 watts continuous to get as loud as the Dayton. Brand new it is a $450.00 sub or so. It is essentially a W7 motor (with slightly smaller magnets) on a standard looking cone and surround. It is a highly linear driver. JL Audio's power ratings are thermal power handling ratings. It will handle 500 watts rms for around 8 hours or more. It will handle a 1000 watt amplifier without issue if used appropriately.



QUOTE:
"I'm assuming though that I will need to make sure I don't push it to 1,200 if I get the dayton driver."

I am not sure what you mean here.

 

[whubbard]

1) So your saying that the JL with the behringer will give me the best quality?

2) So, if price is not on option, and I'm going to be running it at say 750W...the behringer is better than the dayon?

3) Will the JL get as loud? (I've found it for $328...but do I get the 2ohms or 4ohms one?)

 

[whubbard]

Hmm...now im thinking

I'm pretty sure I want a sealed box, as tight bass is my number one concern.
But if I'm going for the behringer, is it worth getting 2 12" subs that have really tight bass, and since there is two...they will sound louder?

also, I don't think im going to want to get the JL, as I don't think I can jusitfy the extra $138.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Question: Are you looking for a new subwoofer, or a way to shake your house to the ground.

1000w is pretty insane for a home subwoofer if you ask me. If you want some serious bass, get this driver:

http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_product_1_13_sd-18.htm

I bet it would be able to output higher SPL levels then anything mentioned so far. Chances are it will play lower too.

That Behringer amplifier is a great amp. I use two for my PA equipment. One alone can power four Selenium 18" Scoops, each are 600w RMS. I never actually use that setup though. I use both to power all four.

I was pleased with the e2500, so I bought an e1500 for my mid/tops.

 

[whubbard]

Well, I want to have tight bass, but if possible also high SPL. However tight bass is the bost important.

That's why im thinking 2 Dayton 15" Mk IIIs powered by the Behringer 2500.

 

[jinjuku]

Thing to keep in mind is those amps have a fan. They can get loud. I know there is a small modification available to quiet the fan noise however.

I built a dual 12" sub ported to 18Hz with the 500 watt Behringer A500 and it shakes the 9X12X8 room I have it in. I mean the ENTIRE room.

This project ran me a total of $568 dollars.

 

[whubbard]

Whats odd is that i've been running WinISD, and the one JL 15W3v2 seem to perform much better than the 2 daytons.

Thanks for the info on the fan. (I'll probably put some sound insulation around it...but I know ill have to keep the fan port open)

SO if it was 2 dayton 12" vs. 1 JL 15" vs. 2 eD 160v.2:

which would you say would have better musical quality?
which would have a higher SPL at the lower end (20Hz)?

 

[jinjuku]

Whats odd is that i've been running WinISD, and the one JL 15W3v2 seem to perform much better than the 2 daytons.

Thanks for the info on the fan. (I'll probably put some sound insulation around it...but I know ill have to keep the fan port open)

SO if it was 2 dayton 12" vs. 1 JL 15" vs. 2 eD 160v.2:

which would you say would have better musical quality?
which would have a higher SPL at the lower end (20Hz)?

I would have to vote for the dual eD 160v.2. They have high excursion,a seriously heavy duty magnet/motor, and good control. With 2 of them, well as the saying goes: There is no replacement for displacement.

My first dual 12" was nothing more than a test run using inexpensive components, and I get a nice sub out of it. Next time around it will be better than 'nice'.

 

[whubbard]

That makes sense to me.
So now for my final question.

Dual eD 160v.2 or JL 15W3v2

which will 'sound better' for music?

 

[jinjuku]

That makes sense to me.
So now for my final question.

Dual eD 160v.2 or JL 15W3v2

which will 'sound better' for music?

Well, you are not using a sub woofer for sheer articulation I am most likely wrong here but I would assume the the more efficient driver will also do better a normal and low (background) music listening levels. The question is: What do you get for your money? Tough one with out hearing the driver.

I am going to keep my vote for the Dual eD 160v.2. Elemental Designs really just strikes me as a company that undervalues it's offerings by a fair margin. The eD 160v.2 could easily sell for another $30-40 bucks. Just like the A5-350 that is coming in could easily sell for $799 and not $600 (including shipping).
I would tell most people to hop on the eD stuff before they gain their sanity and ask a price that their product could really command.

I look at the specs of a respected Titan 15" MKIII sub and then the 160v.2. Just in the weight department the 160 is twice as heavy. Much due to the motor structure. I don't think they are just packing lead in there.

That is a long 'my 2 cents'.

 

[whubbard]

Well I very much agree with your 2 cents. I think thats what I'm going to do.
Now with the beringer I need to convert the XLR to RCA.
Should I use a box like an Art clean box. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CleanBox/

or should I just use simple XLR M to RCA F connectors.

Also,
Would I want the D2 Voice Coil, or D4 Voice Coil.


So now onto the Box.
I've looked at what eD Recommends, and the box size should have internal dementions of:

33.5 (w) x 16.5 (h) x 10.5 (d)

Other than that I know nothing about the box....

 

[jinjuku]

Well I very much agree with your 2 cents. I think thats what I'm going to do.
Now with the beringer I need to convert the XLR to RCA.
Should I use a box like an Art clean box. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CleanBox/

or should I just use simple XLR M to RCA F connectors.

Also,
Would I want the D2 Voice Coil, or D4 Voice Coil.


So now onto the Box.
I've looked at what eD Recommends, and the box size should have internal dementions of:

33.5 (w) x 16.5 (h) x 10.5 (d)

Other than that I know nothing about the box....

Since it looks like all inputs are balanced, I would use the Clean Box. I don't think using an unbalanced RCA cinch connector will work out.

You will most likely want to run the AMP as a mono-block. It is rated at 2400 Watts at 4 ohm. I would try this wiring combination that nets you an 8 ohm load (1200 watts):

Get two of the Dual 2's. They would wire in a series and come out to an 8 ohm load. The EP2500 wouldn't even break a sweat. 2+2+2+2=8

Set the filter on the EP2500 at 30Hz. Since this is primarily for music I would consider a sealed enclosure.

 

[annunaki]

1) So your saying that the JL with the behringer will give me the best quality?

2) So, if price is not on option, and I'm going to be running it at say 750W...the behringer is better than the dayon?

3) Will the JL get as loud? (I've found it for $328...but do I get the 2ohms or 4ohms one?)

The JL will get louder. It has 3/4" of linear one way excursion. You can add another 10%-15% of useable ecursion to that as JL is quite conservative with the numbers as I described with the power handling. You would do the dual 2 ohm version so it can be wired as a 4 ohm sub (wire the coils in series).

The JL with either amp will give you the best quality. I have heard both subs in question. The JL sounds better ported or sealed but costs a bit more.

 

[annunaki]

http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_product_1_13_sd-18.htm

I bet it would be able to output higher SPL levels then anything mentioned so far. Chances are it will play lower too.

That is a P/A sub. More or less junk for home theater applications. It may get lod from 40hz to 150hz but that is it. Big deal