Looking for a Good 10' Sub Mainly jor Music.

[Cristofori]

I'm looking for a good 10' or possibly 8' sub mainly for music. This will be mated to my Behringer 2030P's. I'd like to go for something a little better than the ubiquitous Dayton's I hear so much about here, but still reasonably priced. This will be my first sub purchase, and I have a medium sized room.

I've been looking at the new Velodyne Impact 10 which is priced at $299.99. but I'm open to other possiblities. Is down firing better than front firing for music, or does it matter?

Thank you,

 

[sholling]

The choice of downfiring vs front firing has as much to do with placement and looks as anything else. You'll need room all around a downfiring sub, while all you need is room to the front of a front firing sub.

For subs you have lot to choose from although you may want to up the budget a bit depending on the room size. What you need to do is figure out your room size in cubic feet. That includes anything that opens into that room. Then contact Elemental Designs, Hsu Research, and SVSounds and have them size you a sub. You may also want to ask each if the have anything in their b-stock. Usually that just means minor cosmetic flaws for a 10-20% savings. Finally if all else fails there is the used market.

 

[Cristofori]

The choice of downfiring vs front firing has as much to do with placement and looks as anything else. You'll need room all around a downfiring sub, while all you need is room to the front of a front firing sub.

For subs you have lot to choose from although you may want to up the budget a bit depending on the room size. What you need to do is figure out your room size in cubic feet. That includes anything that opens into that room. Then contact Elemental Designs, Hsu Research, and SVSounds and have them size you a sub. You may also want to ask each if the have anything in their b-stock. Usually that just means minor cosmetic flaws for a 10-20% savings. Finally if all else fails there is the used market.

Thanks, I would like to put the sub right beside my audio rack, so it looks like a front firing sub would be a better choice. I believe the Velodyne Impact 10 is downfiring.

I don't care about looks or if the grill is off, which is how I listen to my speakers anyway. Any suggestions for a front firing sub?

I have a medium to small sized room (I think), but I can get the exact measurements.

 

[KEW]

This is a very nice sub for music. Shipping might be a deal breaker unless you are near Maryland.

I have a pair of these and they are solid.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66783

You can get some more info on them by reading this thread. If you are the impatient sort start on page 4-5.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63493&highlight=velodyne

 

[j_garcia]

' = feet " = inches. A 10 foot sub would be pretty large.

The Emotiva Ultra 10, a sealed sub, is still on sale for $289. http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

 

[Cristofori]

This is a very nice sub for music. Shipping might be a deal breaker unless you are near Maryland.

I have a pair of these and they are solid.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66783

You can get some more info on them by reading this thread. If you are the impatient sort start on page 4-5.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63493&highlight=velodyne

Hey thanks KEW, I remember you were one of those that helped me in deciding to get the Behringer speakers.

It looks like I need a front firing sub, so I might decide to go with a pair of Dayton 8" sub after all. I really didn't want to because they look a little cheesy, but it looks like they are easily upgradeable and I can get a pair shipped for under $200! I'd love to get something better, but since I'm on a budget and I've never took the subwoofer plunge yet, maybe I should start with something entry level and work my way up.

I have some gaps between my component rack and large CD storage cube that my bookshelves are sitting on, and it looks like some 8" subs would be a perfect fit. I could widen out the cubes a little bit, but not much.

Is this a good place to put these subs (it would look really nice anyway), or should I go with one bigger sub and put it in the corner?

 

[Cristofori]

' = feet " = inches. A 10 foot sub would be pretty large.

The Emotiva Ultra 10, a sealed sub, is still on sale for $289. http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

Sorry... yes, your right.

But wouldn't that be really awesome? A 10 foot sub!!!

...and ya better get a pair of em'!

 

[KEW]

How big is your room?
How loud do you listen?
What type of Amp do you have (does it have bass management)?

These answers would help for selection of your sub.

BTW, this is a review of the VMS-8 by a different name. If you compare the specs and look at pics I posted of the VMS-8, you will see they are the same as the Photon reviewed below. The Audioholics review gave them a 4.5 out of 5 for value at a $900 price tag!
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/photon-8-subwoofer
It is a front firing sub and a lot of value for $340.
However, I suspect you would also be very pleased with dual 8" Daytons for <$200!

 

[Cristofori]

How big is your room?

I said I had a small to medium sized room, but I don't have exact measurements at the moment.

How loud do you listen?

Not very loud, except an occasional loud symphony or orchestral extravaganza. I do intend to use the sub for movies also, but this is of secondary importance.

What type of Amp do you have (does it have bass management)?

I have a Marantz 2-channel receiver with a single subwoofer output, so no Bass Management. This will not be a multi-channel set up.

Is the bass difficult to manage?

However, I suspect you would also be very pleased with dual 8" Daytons for <$200!

The reviews are so-so. Some say they are great and can't be beat for the money, others say they are fuzzy or boomy, or pop between switching channels or whatever.

Are they easily upgradeable? It looks like they have a whole list of parts dedicated for them, which sounds to me like they were really meant to be upgraded. But I'm not a very handy person, so I might want to go with something I don't have to do anything to.

Some reviews had mentioned how wonderful they are AFTER they were heavily modified with different drivers, etc. Which seems kind of silly to me, because then you no longer really have a Dayton sub.

I'm not looking to buy just a nice subwoofer cabinet here.

 

[KEW]

I said I had a small to medium sized room, but I don't have exact measurements at the moment.


Not very loud, except an occasional loud symphony or orchestral extravaganza. I do intend to use the sub for movies also, but this is of secondary importance.


I have a Marantz 2-channel receiver with a single subwoofer output, so no Bass Management.

Is the bass difficult to manage?

The reviews are so-so. Some say they are great and can't be beat for the money and others say they are fuzzy or boomy, or pop between switching channels or whatever. Many mentioned how great they are AFTER upgrading them.

Are they easily upgradeable? It looks like they have a whole list of parts dedicated for them, which sounds to me like they were really meant to be upgraded. But I'm not a very handy person, so I might want to go with something I don't have to do anything to. I'm not looking to buy just a nice subwoofer cabinet here.

Neverthless, I'm sure I'll change my mind a hundred times before coming to a conclusion!

I think either would do reasonably well in a small-medium room at medium listening levels. You may have some issues at higher volumes. The VMS amp has a self-limiting system which keeps it from embarrassing itself by limiting the signal to the driver so it won't bottom out and make pops if you "overdrive" it. The volume of the bass will be limited, but that is pretty subtle and listenable compared to the pops of the driver bottoming out. I would be surprised if the Daytons could fit this feature in at <$100.

Your sub should offer some bass management. I checked and both the Daytons and the VMS-8 offer low pass filters for the sub and high pass for the main speakers so you're okay there.
The Dayton info at PE says "High pass filter: 12 dB @ 275 Hz" I don't know if this is a typo, but 275 seems like a high cut-off point for your mains, given the sub's highest frequency setting is 180Hz. Maybe I am misinterpreting something.

I don't know much about the upgrades. For a ported system, the tuning of the sub is pretty important, but I don't know how well the 8" Dayton is tuned to begin with. Dr. Hsu had a hand in one of the larger (but still inexpensive) Daytons, and I would suggest you try to find the $ and space for it if you can. Unfortunately, I don't know which model.

 

[Cristofori]

I think either would do reasonably well in a small-medium room at medium listening levels. You may have some issues at higher volumes. The VMS amp has a self-limiting system which keeps it from embarrassing itself by limiting the signal to the driver so it won't bottom out and make pops if you "overdrive" it. The volume of the bass will be limited, but that is pretty subtle and listenable compared to the pops of the driver bottoming out. I would be surprised if the Daytons could fit this feature in at <$100.

Your sub should offer some bass management. I checked and both the Daytons and the VMS-8 offer low pass filters for the sub and high pass for the main speakers so you're okay there.
The Dayton info at PE says "High pass filter: 12 dB @ 275 Hz" I don't know if this is a typo, but 275 seems like a high cut-off point for your mains, given the sub's highest frequency setting is 180Hz. Maybe I am misinterpreting something.

I don't know much about the upgrades. For a ported system, the tuning of the sub is pretty important, but I don't know how well the 8" Dayton is tuned to begin with. Dr. Hsu had a hand in one of the larger (but still inexpensive) Daytons, and I would suggest you try to find the $ and space for it if you can. Unfortunately, I don't know which model.

Dr. Hsu huh? This all sounds very intriguing...

Anyway, if I do get a pair of subs, I will need some kind of splitter or something for my single sub output. Would the pair of subs then have stereo bass? If not, it doesn't seem to make sense to have two mono subs, since from what I understand bass is omni-directional.

This may not be the case nowadays, but I've heard before that most music doesn't have stereo bass anyway below a certain Hz.

Not trying to argue, as I don't have a clue about subs. Just asking questions.

 

[shadyJ]

Bass is generally not supposed to be directional below 80 hertz. For a pair of subs, all you would need is a RCA Y-splitter from the sub out. The Emotiva sub might work for you, although a sealed 10" isn't going to have an enormous amount of output. I think it will sound very clean though, and if you want more output, you could just get another, hopefully while that sale is still on. Elemental Designs has a relatively inexpensive 10" sealed sub as well, and if you buy two you get a nice discount on the order. Hsu has nice ported 8" and 10" subs, those will have more output than sealed designs and still have very good sound quality. I used to have their STF2 myself, that was a great little sub. While none of the above mentioned subs are the very cheapest around, they are still inexpensive and should match the sound quality of your Behringer speakers. For an emphasis on sound quality, I wouldn't get anything less than those.

 

[KEW]

...Emotiva sub might work for you...Elemental Designs has a relatively inexpensive 10" sealed sub as well, and if you buy two you get a nice discount on the order.... Hsu has nice ported 8" and 10" subs, those will have more output than sealed designs and still have very good sound quality.
While none of the above mentioned subs are the very cheapest around, they are still inexpensive and should match the sound quality of your Behringer speakers. For an emphasis on sound quality, I wouldn't get anything less than those.

ShadyJ knows this stuff better than I! If he and J. Garcia recommend the Emotiva 10" sub, it is a good candidate.
He makes a good point that the 8" Daytons or other bottom tier subs could mangle the fidelity of your Begringers. It is a fact of life that those bottom two octaves will disproportionately cost you if you want to maintain the SQ.

I think sealed subs are best suited for music, but Dr. Hsu has an excellent rep for getting musical sound out of ported at a good price.

 

[sholling]

Keep in mind that your sub(s) don't need to be up front. Instead of a pair of anemic 8" subs up front you may want to consider single large sub as an end table like this or this one or a used cylinder sub behind your seating position.

 

[Cristofori]

Bass is generally not supposed to be directional below 80 hertz. For a pair of subs, all you would need is a RCA Y-splitter from the sub out. The Emotiva sub might work for you, although a sealed 10" isn't going to have an enormous amount of output. I think it will sound very clean though, and if you want more output, you could just get another, hopefully while that sale is still on. Elemental Designs has a relatively inexpensive 10" sealed sub as well, and if you buy two you get a nice discount on the order. Hsu has nice ported 8" and 10" subs, those will have more output than sealed designs and still have very good sound quality. I used to have their STF2 myself, that was a great little sub. While none of the above mentioned subs are the very cheapest around, they are still inexpensive and should match the sound quality of your Behringer speakers. For an emphasis on sound quality, I wouldn't get anything less than those.

The Hsu 8" sub looks slender, which would fit nicely between my component rack and CD storage cubes that my speakers sit on. But it looks like the Hsu is down-firing, and I was told you needed room around a down-firing sub, and there will be little room.

Should I be looking at a front-firing sub? Or does it not really matter in my situation?

 

[Cristofori]

Keep in mind that your sub(s) don't need to be up front. Instead of a pair of anemic 8" subs up front you may want to consider single large sub as an end table like this or this one or a used cylinder sub behind your seating position.

I understand that, but I keep hearing how ideally, one should get a pair of subs for music.

If this isn't the case, I'd rather get one bigger sub which I can put in the corner, for obvious cost and practical reasons. Do I really need a pair of subs? And why would a pair of 8"s be "anemic"?

Having a pair of 8"s with my set up would look really nice though!

 

[Cristofori]

Shadyj said: "The Emotiva sub might work for you, although a sealed 10" isn't going to have an enormous amount of output. I think it will sound very clean though, and if you want more output, you could just get another, hopefully while that sale is still on".

I don't know anything about sealed vs. non-sealed, but I don't think I need enormous output from a sub, considering the type of stuff I listen to.

Also, I checked Emotiva's website and all they seem to have is a 12" sub, and at $599 is over my budget.

Where is this 10" Emotiva on sale you mentioned?

 

[Cristofori]

I don't know anything about sealed vs. non-sealed, but I don't think I need enormous output from a sub, considering the type of stuff I listen to.

Also, I checked Emotiva's website and all they seem to have is a 12" sub, and at $599 is over my budget.

Where is this 10" Emotiva on sale you mentioned?

Sorry... nevermind the above post. I found it!

 

[sholling]

I understand that, but I keep hearing how ideally, one should get a pair of subs for music.

A pair of subs for one of two reasons. One - if you want to run an active crossover with a separate amp and preamp and split out the left and right deep bass from what would have gone to the L&R speakers then according to Chris (WmAx) you avoid some sort of internal cancellations within the sub. He's a huge advicate of this. But none of this applies if you just split a subwoofer preout to feed two subs. It's still just a mono feed going to two subs. Or even if you have 2 subwoofer preouts because they are both carrying the same mono feed.

The other reason for having two subs is to even out the bass response within the room so that there isn't just one or two sweet spots.

If this isn't the case, I'd rather get one bigger sub which I can put in the corner, for obvious cost and practical reasons.

Probably a better solution so that you don't risk resonances off items stacked too close.

Do I really need a pair of subs?

No.

And why would a pair of 8"s be "anemic"?

Very few 8" subs are designed to extend really low and play flat doing it. Maybe somebody knows of one that plays flat to below 20hz but I don't. Also note that I said a pair of anemic subs, not that a pair would necessarily be anemic. Two combined might have plenty of output (although extension remains an issue) because two 8" subs would give you area equal to an 11.5" sub. Of course you still have to figure in driver excursion, subwoofer design, and amplifier power to compare output. But we will never know what plenty of output is because we still don't know the cubic footage of the room.

If the room is under 2500cuft maybe a single sealed eD A5s-300 in a corner. Or if it's a bit larger maybe a single A3-300, or if no one lives under you (or next to the wall with the sub) then maybe a cylinder sub like a PC12-NSD would look good in a back corner. You could also shop for used subs in the same league.

 

[Cristofori]

A pair of subs for one of two reasons. One - if you want to run an active crossover with a separate amp and preamp and split out the left and right deep bass from what would have gone to the L&R speakers then according to Chris (WmAx) you avoid some sort of internal cancellations within the sub. He's a huge advicate of this. But none of this applies if you just split a subwoofer preout to feed two subs. It's still just a mono feed going to two subs. Or even if you have 2 subwoofer preouts because they are both carrying the same mono feed.

The other reason for having two subs is to even out the bass response within the room so that there isn't just one or two sweet spots.


Probably a better solution so that you don't risk resonances off items stacked too close.


No.


Very few 8" subs are designed to extend really low and play flat doing it. Maybe somebody knows of one that plays flat to below 20hz but I don't. Also note that I said a pair of anemic subs, not that a pair would necessarily be anemic. Two combined might have plenty of output (although extension remains an issue) because two 8" subs would give you area equal to an 11.5" sub. Of course you still have to figure in driver excursion, subwoofer design, and amplifier power to compare output. But we will never know what plenty of output is because we still don't know the cubic footage of the room.

If the room is under 2500cuft maybe a single sealed eD A5s-300 in a corner. Or if it's a bit larger maybe a single A3-300, or if no one lives under you (or next to the wall with the sub) then maybe a cylinder sub like a PC12-NSD would look good in a back corner. You could also shop for used subs in the same league.

Thanks for all the info. I didn't really want to buy two subs anyway, as I knew that bass was omni-directional and that just seemed like Audioholic overkill to me. Maybe right for some applications, but I'm sure mine can do without.

I do live in a duplex on the upper floor that my friend owns, but no one has been living downstairs for over a year now (and I might move down their eventually). However, I'm not looking for an earth shattering experience with a sub, just looking to add some warmth and fullness to my bookshelf speakers. I probably will keep it down pretty low most of the time.

It looks like now I'm seriously considering that Emotiva 10" on sale. It seems this may be best for my music within my price range.