Look at what Pioneer brought out for $200

[3db]

The SP-BS41-LR's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.62/–4.50 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 67 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 52 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 6.97 ohms at 224 Hz and a phase angle of –38.35 degrees at 129 Hz.


These are pretty good meaurements for a speaker which costs so little. They are very easy to drive and coupled with a good sub would put alot of more expensive speakers to shame. They certainly much better than these...

The Beethoven Baby Grand's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.84/–6.48 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 59 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 32 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.00 ohms at 99 Hz and a phase angle of +42.55 degrees at 2.2 kHz.

There is no excuse for a speaker that costs as much as the Baby Grand to measure this poorly. Can you say midrange suck out?

 

[GranteedEV]

Pioneer speakers are awesome

I'm running a cheapo $60 pair of pioneer 6.5" coaxials in my civic and it's extremely balanced sounding from bass to top end. (when the windows are rolled down of course)

I really want three of those TAD midrange coax drivers used in the S-1EX and Reference One

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I wonder of Truth A1030A measures... If they are anything like my JBLs $180/pair is a steal for them
50Hz-20khz (F not stated, guess F3 ?)
110db at 1m/pair
3 gain adjustments

 

[anamorphic96]

I actually have these Pioneer BS-41's at home right now. I tend to agree with the above statements. These are flat out great speakers. Especially at the 199.00 price point. They tend to be on the warm side and require a little more power to wake them, but I would rather a have speaker be a little to warm than bright.

Even scarier are the BS-21's. I had these for a couple of weeks and they are just as good with just a little less bass and only run 99.00 a pair. They make the Best Buy Insignias sound like crap.

Not sure which ones I will end up with but I had to have a pair. What's more ridiculous is the center channel is only 80.00 and can be placed vertically per Andrew Jones himself. So for 240.00 you can have timbre matched front stage that will outperform MUCH pricier speakers. This whole line of speakers are true diamonds in the rough. Stupid good for the asking prices

The sub from this line is the only place they cut corners. It's essentially a TSC,Energy ASW/ESW-8 with a different driver. But it's a good performing sub in smaller rooms.

 

[bikemig]

These look great and can be found for around $150. I'm thinking of pairing them with a stereo receiver for the master bedroom; you'd have to pay a heck of a lot more than $150 to have better sounding bookshelf speakers.

 

[zieglj01]

Even scarier are the BS-21's. I had these for a couple of weeks and they are just as good with just a little less bass and only run 99.00 a pair. They make the Best Buy Insignias sound like crap.

I have opened the insides of both speakers - The Pioneer build
quality is very good for the price. They even used a poly cap for
the tweeter, and there is a brace between the front and back
of the cabinet. The Insignia can not and does not, match them
in build or sound quality.

 

[anamorphic96]

I forgot to mention these recent reviews for both models.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs41-lr-speaker-system

http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/pioneer-sp-pk21bs/4505-7868_7-34654855.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The SP-BS41-LR's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.62/–4.50 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 67 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 52 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 6.97 ohms at 224 Hz and a phase angle of –38.35 degrees at 129 Hz.


These are pretty good meaurements for a speaker which costs so little.

I agree that in terms of bass output @ the price point, it's pretty good.

But the -4.5dB is not very good.

The NHT SuperZero may not to down as far in the bass, but it's +/-3dB.

The Infinity P162 is 60Hz-19kHz +/-3dB Anechoic NRC. I bought a P163 2 weeks ago for $80 on Amazon.

The price of the P163 is now like $137 each, but when they go back on sale @ 85 each, they are the ones to beat.

I'm just saying....

OK, I'll be quiet now.

 

[3db]

I agree that in terms of bass output @ the price point, it's pretty good.

But the -4.5dB is not very good.

The NHT SuperZero may not to down as far in the bass, but it's +/-3dB.

The Infinity P162 is 60Hz-19kHz +/-3dB Anechoic NRC. I bought a P163 2 weeks ago for $80 on Amazon.

The price of the P163 is now like $137 each, but when they go back on sale @ 85 each, they are the ones to beat.

I'm just saying....

OK, I'll be quiet now.

Dude, its kinda useless to quote prices from sites offering deals when doing a baseline comparison. Thats why I use MRSP. It puts everything at a easily compared level. Quoting prices from discount sites becomes useful once someone has made up their mind to purchase. Know what I'm saying?

 

[jonnythan]

Well the MSRP on a pair of Superzeroes is $200, so it's a good comparison.

 

[3db]

Well the MSRP on a pair of Superzeroes is $200, so it's a good comparison.

I agree

 

[PharmD]

What's absolutely amazing to me is the $200ea NHT Absolute Zero!

nhthifi.com/Absolute-Zero-White

The Absolute Zero’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/–0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz...

You'll have to crossover @ 100Hz, but that's okay.

Name me another speaker regardless of SIZE or PRICE that has a better listening-window response!

Compare it to the Revel Salon2, KEF 207/2, B&W 800 D, etc., and you can see that none of these $20K+ speakers have a better listening-window response than this $400/pr NHT.

But who is ready to say that the Absolute Zero will sound better than the 800 D, Salon 2, or 207/2?

I'm not ready.

 

[PharmD]

But the -4.5dB is not very good.

I agree.

+/- 4.5dB is not "pretty good" at any price.

 

[PharmD]

The SP-BS41-LR's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.62/–4.50 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 67 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 52 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 6.97 ohms at 224 Hz and a phase angle of –38.35 degrees at 129 Hz.


These are pretty good meaurements for a speaker which costs so little. They are very easy to drive and coupled with a good sub would put alot of more expensive speakers to shame. They certainly much better than these...

The Beethoven Baby Grand's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.84/–6.48 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 59 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 32 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.00 ohms at 99 Hz and a phase angle of +42.55 degrees at 2.2 kHz.

There is no excuse for a speaker that costs as much as the Baby Grand to measure this poorly. Can you say midrange suck out?

Are you saying the $200 Pioneer will sound better than the Beethoven Baby Grand?

The B&W 800 Diamond is +6dB @ 90Hz, +4dB @ 3.5kHz, & +5dB @ 10kHz.

Are you willing to put the B&W 800 D in the "no excuse for a speaker that costs as much to measure this poorly" category?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[3db]

Are you saying the $200 Pioneer will sound better than the Beethoven Baby Grand?

What I am saying that coupled with a sub in a small to medium room, the Pioneer will offer a better balance of sound then the Beethovens. They may not be able to play as loud, be as dynamic, or look as pretty but they'll be far more accurate than the Beethovens, espicially in the up mid range.

 

[PharmD]

What I am saying that coupled with a sub in a small to medium room, the Pioneer will offer a better balance of sound then the Bewethovens. They may not be able to play as loud, be as dynamic, or look as pretty but they'll be far more accurate than the Beethovens, espicially in the up mid range.

Will the Pioneer, when coupled with a sub in a small to medium room and playing not very loud, offer a better balance of sound than the B&W 800 Diamond?

 

[jonnythan]

Frequency response charts only tell you so much about a speaker. There's a lot more going on than what you can get out of a frequency sweep.

 

[3db]

Frequency response charts only tell you so much about a speaker. There's a lot more going on than what you can get out of a frequency sweep.

Frequency response tells you alot about a speaker but not everything. It doesn't tell you about its linearity, how well it responds to large transistions of amplitude. However, it does tell me that the mids on this speaker are much better than Beethovens and if the B&W measure as poorly in the mids as the Beethoven's, the same holds true.

 

[jonnythan]

Frequency response tells you alot about a speaker but not everything. It doesn't tell you about its linearity, how well it responds to large transistions of amplitude. However, it does tell me that the mids on this speaker are much better than Beethovens and if the B&W measure as poorly in the mids as the Beethoven's, the same holds true.

But do you honestly think they'll sound better than either of those two very expensive speakers?

 

[3db]

But do you honestly think they'll sound better than either of those two very expensive speakers?

In the midrange..yes .. given room constraints..etc. price is no guarentee of quality.