Long Audio Cable Run

[Stryder]

I have a question about making long audio runs. I am going to have my audio source in one location and make several runs to different locations. I would like to be able to make them 100ft. +/- I was researching this and found some good ideas on another forum but it was European and the sites they were using to suggest where to buy parts weren't an option for me. Let me explain the system I am building. I will have a PC with an M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI card for the output. It has 10 analog (red/white) outputs and I want to go from there to a location 100ft. +/- away with the audio signal so I can plug into a receiver or some powered speakers. What I have read previously is to use coax to run the cable and terminate the ends with the rca plugs. Does anyone on here have any thoughts on doing this. Good idea, bad idea, or do you have a better idea. I thought it would be a good idea because it would be a very cheap way to get my long audio run and these runs will be outdoor and coax would be good for outdoor use. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Using RG6 quad shield is a decent, but not necessarily great way of doing this. There are some better ways to do it but they all cost a fair bit more money, so I would likely go with coax.

Not sure, but shielded 3 conductor audio cable may be better. I'm not sure on this.

The better ways include sender/receiver devices which put the signal up to a near speaker level, then pull it back down on the receiving end. Noise still gets into the line, but is reduced significantly. I've used this in the past, but it's been a while.

Or, you convert it from unbalanced audio to balanced audio. RDL makes a lot of these types of converters...
http://www.rdlnet.com/
Once again, not inexpensive with a lot of runs.

Finally, converting all analog to digital is an option. Again, not an inexpensive option.
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5278
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5279
$160 per stereo pair.

 

[njedpx3]

Use 12 gauge 2-wire

Use regular wire 12 gauge 2 wire. From tabke below 12 guage will handle 6 ohm up to 90 ft and 8 ohm( the nominal impedance of most pseakers) up to 120 ft.

Here is some from 12 gauge wire from monoprice for $30.70:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2817&seq=1&format=2


Recommended Speaker Wire Size by Load and Distance
Wire Size 2 ohm load 4 ohm load 6 ohm load 8 ohm load
22 AWG 3 feet max 6 feet max 9 feet max 12 feet max
20 AWG 5 feet max 10 feet max 15 feet max 20 feet max
18 AWG 8 feet max 16 feet max 24 feet max 32 feet max
16 AWG 12 feet max 24 feet max 36 feet max 48 feet max
14 AWG 20 feet max 40 feet max 60 feet** 80 feet**
12 AWG 30 feet max 60 feet** 90 feet** /120 feet**
10 AWG 50 feet max 100 feet** 150 feet** 200 feet**

 

[highfigh]

I have a question about making long audio runs. I am going to have my audio source in one location and make several runs to different locations. I would like to be able to make them 100ft. +/- I was researching this and found some good ideas on another forum but it was European and the sites they were using to suggest where to buy parts weren't an option for me. Let me explain the system I am building. I will have a PC with an M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI card for the output. It has 10 analog (red/white) outputs and I want to go from there to a location 100ft. +/- away with the audio signal so I can plug into a receiver or some powered speakers. What I have read previously is to use coax to run the cable and terminate the ends with the rca plugs. Does anyone on here have any thoughts on doing this. Good idea, bad idea, or do you have a better idea. I thought it would be a good idea because it would be a very cheap way to get my long audio run and these runs will be outdoor and coax would be good for outdoor use. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

How many locations will get the signal? You could use a CE Labs AV distribution amp- each output is buffered and you shouldn't have any line loss sending to multiple amps/powered speakers. They go from 4-9 outputs and if you're not sending any video, you could use one with composite video and stereo audio to keep the price down. If you can use S/PDIF digital audio, they have some with the ability to distribute that, too.

I have a Denon receiver with Zone 2 output and I use a keystone insert with a 3.5mm jack connect from the receiver's RCA out a basement receiver and a garage receiver via Cat5e. No amplifier, no baluns, no apparent loss of sound quality and no noise with the run to the garage being close to 100'.

 

[Stryder]

Thanks for the responses guys! Appreciate it a lot!

Let me get a little more specific with my project.

Me and 2 friends run a haunted attraction and this last year all our sound was run by small mp3 players at each location. This was a pain but very cheap! We had problems with batteries going dead putting out the devices and picking them up every night. This way, with the PC, we can run all the audio from it and just have one device to set up and take down and no batteries to worry about.

I will have probably 8 zones and each zone will have a different audio feed to it. Example: Entrance audio may be some organ music with wailing and screams and then in one room of the house maybe some whispers etc...

So far I think I like using then 12 ga. wire njedpx3 posted. I think that PVC shield would be good for outdoor use. I am not really worried about harsh weather but the wire will be exposed to the sun every day in the month of October so it is a little bit of a concern.

BMXTRIX: I can get a sound card the M-Audio Delta 1010 (instead of the LT version) has balanced I/O. The I/O ports are balanced 3.5mm outputs (I think) they might be 1/4 inch. Is there an inexpensive cable that i could use that might be better than using the Delta 1010LT with the standard 12 ga. speaker wire? It is a haunted house so I don't need the best sound but I want it to sound good!

 

[highfigh]

Thanks for the responses guys! Appreciate it a lot!

Let me get a little more specific with my project.

Me and 2 friends run a haunted attraction and this last year all our sound was run by small mp3 players at each location. This was a pain but very cheap! We had problems with batteries going dead putting out the devices and picking them up every night. This way, with the PC, we can run all the audio from it and just have one device to set up and take down and no batteries to worry about.

I will have probably 8 zones and each zone will have a different audio feed to it. Example: Entrance audio may be some organ music with wailing and screams and then in one room of the house maybe some whispers etc...

So far I think I like using then 12 ga. wire njedpx3 posted. I think that PVC shield would be good for outdoor use. I am not really worried about harsh weather but the wire will be exposed to the sun every day in the month of October so it is a little bit of a concern.

BMXTRIX: I can get a sound card the M-Audio Delta 1010 (instead of the LT version) has balanced I/O. The I/O ports are balanced 3.5mm outputs (I think) they might be 1/4 inch. Is there an inexpensive cable that i could use that might be better than using the Delta 1010LT with the standard 12 ga. speaker wire? It is a haunted house so I don't need the best sound but I want it to sound good!

12ga wire is great if you're using it to connect speakers but Cat5e is 24ga and if you're feeding powered speakers, the heavier cable won't make a difference. You could just as well use regular audio cable (not the coaxial shielded kind- I mean the 2 conductor with shield) for this but it's more expensive than Cat5e, so you have choices.

Balanced 3.5mm? That would need at least 4 conductors for a stereo feed. I used Leviton keystone inserts with 3.5mm jacks when I terminated mine and it works fine. I also have them feeding the signal to/from my desktop computer and receiver, so I can record and play iTunes. I have no noise whatsoever.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Are the speakers you are using all powered? Sorry if you posted that, but if not, then why not put everything at the PC location? This is more 'typical' for a distributed audio installation. Get all the amps back in one location, then run speaker wire (14 gauge or so) to all your speaker locations. This keeps noise down and gives you a solid system easily.

You can check places like http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com for speaker wire that is actually rated for outdoor use.

I'm not aware of a lot of the product you have listed, but I'm aware of some of the options there are. So, it really depends on your connection to the current speakers, how they are amplified, what kind they are, and the demand for audio quality with NO noise, or a little bit of acceptable noise.

I know I run line level audio over mini-coaxial cable to my kids bedroom and it sounds okay. Not great, but it doesn't need to sound great. If 'okay' works, then standard shieled 2-conductor cable is fine for unbalanced audio feeds.

West Penn Cable has their 352 cable (non-Plenum) which is available in a weather resistent version as well.

http://www.westpenn-wpw.com/index.php?option=com_cable_finder&func=SearchSec&section=Audio_Control_NonPlenum&col_1=3+(2+Shld)(1+Unshld)&col_2=22+(7x30)&col_3=&col_4=&col_5=&col_6=&col_7=

It won't be audiophile quality, but it doesn't sound like you need that, and it's practical and inexpensive. You will need some RCA ends for it and a soldering gun to get it all working.

 

[highfigh]

Are the speakers you are using all powered? Sorry if you posted that, but if not, then why not put everything at the PC location? This is more 'typical' for a distributed audio installation. Get all the amps back in one location, then run speaker wire (14 gauge or so) to all your speaker locations. This keeps noise down and gives you a solid system easily.

You can check places like http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com for speaker wire that is actually rated for outdoor use.

I'm not aware of a lot of the product you have listed, but I'm aware of some of the options there are. So, it really depends on your connection to the current speakers, how they are amplified, what kind they are, and the demand for audio quality with NO noise, or a little bit of acceptable noise.

I know I run line level audio over mini-coaxial cable to my kids bedroom and it sounds okay. Not great, but it doesn't need to sound great. If 'okay' works, then standard shieled 2-conductor cable is fine for unbalanced audio feeds.

West Penn Cable has their 352 cable (non-Plenum) which is available in a weather resistent version as well.

http://www.westpenn-wpw.com/index.php?option=com_cable_finder&func=SearchSec&section=Audio_Control_NonPlenum&col_1=3+(2+Shld)(1+Unshld)&col_2=22+(7x30)&col_3=&col_4=&col_5=&col_6=&col_7=

It won't be audiophile quality, but it doesn't sound like you need that, and it's practical and inexpensive. You will need some RCA ends for it and a soldering gun to get it all working.

What about the small diameter Belden cable with 2 conductors and shield? I'll see if I have some so I can get the numbers. I used that here at home for my desktop's send/receive to the receiver and it works great. Reasonable price, too. I got it from a friend at another dealer here in MKE and he also owns a recording studio, where he used it for all of his audio cabling to/from the patch bays and input jacks.

The Belden is similar to the West Penn, but it's smaller in diameter. I have some cable that's probably just like the West Penn- it's about 1/4" in diameter, right?

 

[Stryder]

Are the speakers you are using all powered? Sorry if you posted that, but if not, then why not put everything at the PC location? This is more 'typical' for a distributed audio installation. Get all the amps back in one location, then run speaker wire (14 gauge or so) to all your speaker locations. This keeps noise down and gives you a solid system easily.

You can check places like had to remove link for speaker wire that is actually rated for outdoor use.

I'm not aware of a lot of the product you have listed, but I'm aware of some of the options there are. So, it really depends on your connection to the current speakers, how they are amplified, what kind they are, and the demand for audio quality with NO noise, or a little bit of acceptable noise.

I know I run line level audio over mini-coaxial cable to my kids bedroom and it sounds okay. Not great, but it doesn't need to sound great. If 'okay' works, then standard shieled 2-conductor cable is fine for unbalanced audio feeds.

West Penn Cable has their 352 cable (non-Plenum) which is available in a weather resistent version as well.

had to remove link

It won't be audiophile quality, but it doesn't sound like you need that, and it's practical and inexpensive. You will need some RCA ends for it and a soldering gun to get it all working.

I have not decided on all the speakers yet but I love the idea of having all the amps right there at the PC. The whole idea is to have this system controlled in one location. It would sort of defeat the purpose if all the volume/tweaking controls were at each zone. The amount of speakers at each location may be different. Most of the time 2 speakers will work. However, one of our locations last year had a Sony 5.1 channel home theater receiver with 5 speakers and I would like to do some more of that this year. The only thing about putting that receiver @ the PC is the amount of speaker wire runs it would take. That is 5 really long runs. Suggestions on how to avoid 5 - 50+ ft. speaker wire runs to one location?

You are right, I don't need audiophile quality, "okay" quality is fine for this application.

 

[highfigh]

I have not decided on all the speakers yet but I love the idea of having all the amps right there at the PC. The whole idea is to have this system controlled in one location. It would sort of defeat the purpose if all the volume/tweaking controls were at each zone. The amount of speakers at each location may be different. Most of the time 2 speakers will work. However, one of our locations last year had a Sony 5.1 channel home theater receiver with 5 speakers and I would like to do some more of that this year. The only thing about putting that receiver @ the PC is the amount of speaker wire runs it would take. That is 5 really long runs. Suggestions on how to avoid 5 - 50+ ft. speaker wire runs to one location?

You are right, I don't need audiophile quality, "okay" quality is fine for this application.

The cheap way to get the signal to the 5.1 speakers is to send line level audio (digital or analog) to the receiver. If you use coax and have a high chance that a ground loop will be a problem, you can convert the signal to optical for about $30. Coax of any kind will work getting the signal to the converter and you would only need a short optical cable to get it to the receiver. If you use Cat5e, you can use some of the conductors for IR control of the receiver.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you haven't figured out the speakers/audio setup, then I would use speaker wire instead of trying for line level signals. Put the amps with the PC and amplify everything from that location. You can try to pick up a multi-channel amplifier which has multiple audio inputs with discrete amplification. They are generally stable to 4 ohms which means you can put up to 2 speakers on each channel. A typical 12 channel amplifier could power up to 24 total speakers pretty easily with high quality audio.

Speaker wire is really not that expensive, and long runs of that is no more difficult to run that long runs of any other cable.

250' of 14/4 speaker cable is about 90 bucks a roll:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=4040&seq=1&format=2

Perhaps one of the best ways to get audio everywhere and get all your gear into one centralized location (called the 'head end').

Amps are available on eBay:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=12+channel+amplifier&_sacat=0&_odkw=12+channel+amplifier&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sonance-Sonamp-1230-Amplifier-Great-AMP-/260753890544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb6249cf0

Lots of ways to get this done, but I would run speaker wires out to everything. Best possible signal and all your gear in one spot.