Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.

[asahikasei]

People always assume that high end high priced audio will be superior in every aspect to your standard receiver, this can be true when dealing with analog 2CH setups but in home theater it is not. High end companies either do a direct rebadged and sell it for a huge profit or they design their own but as you will see there is nothing high end about it.

Lexicon MC-12.

Here we see the Digital I/O Board "top" and Analog I/O Board "bottom" obviously they are in no way superior to how a receiver is built/designed. Obviously there will be no sonic improvements using a DSP/DAC since the high end does not use anything special or better then what is used in today's receivers so the difference would be in the analog section of the product. As you can see there is nothing superior about the analog section of a very expensive Lexicon MC-12.

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Lexicon/mc12/smr_images.html

Here is where I found the pictures.

Halcro SSP100/200.

The halcro uses the Vinci Labs Titan OEM SSP platform.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973556

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=18281&prevloaded=1&rid=0&SQ=0&start=0

In these threads we found out that they do infact use the titan platform.

As you can see by the back layout the halcro "top" and parasound "bottom" have the same layout and most of it is exactly the same. The halcro also uses the following DSP/DAC, Audio DSP: Motorola DSP56367 Audio DAC: ASAHI KASEI AK4395 The HDMI also has an Audio DSP: Motorola DSP56371.

Mcintosh MX135/136.

The DSP system Mac uses.

http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE-5

The analog section for one channel.

This shows the power supply section of the mac, the two things I did like about the mac is the power section and the analog section when compaired to the lexicon.

 

[asahikasei]

Slow day today, if someone can tell me why a high end processor will sound better I am all ears.

 

[highfihoney]

Ive had some pretty heated arguements over the past few years on this forum with the likes of Mytry,FMW & a few others,in all the posts ive never felt the need to leave anybody negative feedback, till now.

We've been down this road with you before,haven't we,you've got a new username i see but your still the same ole TAWNOS,or Neverwinter2,or even ERICBEE,same pics,same trolling.

Lets see if i remember your pattern correctly,you Hate Mcintosh gear because they use a Yamaha DSP chip in the pre/pro YOU BOUGHT from them,you hate Martin Logan because they blew up on you & are made with sub standard parts & engineering,you had to buy a 2nd pair of ML's to make up your mind they were junk You spent a month bashing denon till the mod's & staff here made you chill.

Welcome back to the red zone Tawnos,i just left your 1st bad feedback.

 

[bandphan]

just reading the title and was thinking, "this would be for HH", come to find out....... IMO boredem leads to drinking, and my processor says cheers!

 

[Seth=L]

The Parasound and Lexicon do have some similarities in the layout. The Lexicon is obviously newer. Most people would be surprised to know that many pre/pros are made by one company. One such company that comes to mind that makes this grade of gear for other companies is Sherwood, not that they made these two pre/pros, but it's possible. Now even if these pre/pros do sound the same there are other factors to consider as well. The warranty is an important factor, customer service and support, aesthetics, and overall appearance.

 

[highfihoney]

Seth,c'mon man,you cant tell me you dont recognize this yoyo,look under subscribed threads in your user cp,we've done this dance with him many times before.

Or just search the forum for Twanos,you'll remember.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth,c'mon man,you cant tell me you dont recognize this yoyo,look under subscribed threads in your user cp,we've done this dance with him many times before.

Or just search the forum for Twanos,you'll remember.

I am not debating that, it seems very trollish for a first day user.

 

[jostenmeat]

We've been down this road with you before,haven't we,you've got a new username i see but your still the same ole TAWNOS,or Neverwinter2,or even ERICBEE,same pics,same trolling.

Welcome back to the red zone Tawnos,i just left your 1st bad feedback.

This is actually good info for me, LOL. Neverwinter2 is the most ridiculous poster I have ever come across. He is the first and only to make my ignore list on AVS, and that wasn't very easy to do. So he is also ERICBEE and TAWNOS.

Man those Lexicon pre's can be so expensive. However, they are the only units that I have heard consumers rave about 2-ch matrixing into multi-ch music DSP etc. A couple of users I know that have them at AVS include hifisponce and McCall.

I've got my pitchfork and torch out!

 

[highfihoney]

This is actually good info for me, LOL. Neverwinter2 is the most ridiculous poster I have ever come across. He is the first and only to make my ignore list on AVS, and that wasn't very easy to do. So he is also ERICBEE and TAWNOS.

Yes,Neverwinter2 is out of his mind,he was also Tawnos over at AVS, running both usernames at the same time on that site,do a search on AVS using both Tawnos & Neverwinter2 in the same search,he can be found over at Aidiokarma as well,only he's ERICBEE over there.Plenty of people know his alias'es & i am not the only one to call him on them either.

He was Tawnos here on AH as well,read these AH posts then decide if the pattern or his speel matches what you know of Neverwinter2 over at AVS.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29051&highlight=tawnos+neverwinter2

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28560&highlight=tawnos

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks hifi, but I prefer not to waste my time. I'd regret wasting any bit of my life reading any BS that he spews. Thanks though, I'm hoping I'll remember those other aliases when they appear. Don't get me wrong, your tip is still much appreciated!

 

[Haoleb]

I was reading this and thought, wow this is an old thread. Then I saw it was posted today. I could swear I have seen this exact thing before.

In all seriousness, who the hell has enough time and the type of mental instability to go around on forums, and posting this stuff You seem to have already made your mind made up that high end stuff is a bunch of rebranded crap and obviously havent the mental capacity to recognize the differences in build quality, component selection etc that seperates the mass market from the high end so why not just go lock yourself back up in the dark basement you call home and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[highfihoney]

Thanks hifi, but I prefer not to waste my time. I'd regret wasting any bit of my life reading any BS that he spews. Thanks though, I'm hoping I'll remember those other aliases when they appear. Don't get me wrong, your tip is still much appreciated!

I didnt really expect you to waste time reading that drool in the other threads,however i did think it was only right that i posted some backgrounmd so others would know i wasnt simply on an eye poking mission.

Whoever Tawnos or Neverwinter2 is as a man he is surely one of the worst trolls on the web,ive found him spreading his nonsense on pc forums as well as audio/ht forums.

Haloeb,your right,its a sad man who gets his jollies of starting arguements,then spends years creating constant controversey every where he goes.

 

[fmw]

I don't know anything about these units but I do know some business basics. A lot of people don't understand how some high end gear is priced. Large manufacturers like Sony or Panasonic base pricing on production cost with a margin to cover company overhead and profit. They sell units in the 100's of thousands or even millions. Small U.S. high end manufacturers don't base things on cost of manufacture. They really can't because sales are in the 100's or 1000's. These products are based on the company's overhead and profits divided by the units sold or projected to be sold. In other words they represent reverse economies of scale to an extreme degree.

So they work at developing a cache among consumers for better performance in return for the necessarily higher selling prices. This performance may or may not be evident but the belief in it is critical to the success of the company's products. Even when the product is produced in and imported from Asia or elsewhere, the company needs to keep prices high in order to continue that belief and justify the label on the product.

Don't mistake me, some of the high end products are better performers but usually they are only marginally so at best.

I think a reasonable comparison is the Rolex watch. People don't buy them because they tell time better, even though the advertising would lead you in that direction. They buy them because of the belief in the brand, pride of ownership and bragging rights. If they keep time better it is only marginally so at best. High end audio gear is a reasonable parallel, I think.

Take a knowledgeable audiophile. Give him the same product with two different labels on it at the same price and he will choose the one with the better cache every time. He will even choose it when the lesser brand has somewhat better performance. It is human nature.

 

[asahikasei]

http://www.lexicon.com/image_library/RV5_rear_lo.jpg

http://www.harmankardon.com/back.aspx?prod=AVR%20745&cat=REC&sType=C&Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&ImgName=AVR745B.jpg

The lexicon RV5 receiver is a direct rebadge of the HK, remember that the lexicon amps use to be a rebadge of bryston and are now a rebadge of ATI.

 

[asahikasei]

The Parasound and Lexicon do have some similarities in the layout.

You mean halcro not lexicon.

Man those Lexicon pre's can be so expensive. However, they are the only units that I have heard consumers rave about 2-ch matrixing into multi-ch music DSP etc. A couple of users I know that have them at AVS include hifisponce and McCall.

Logic7? That aside why not buy a HK receiver since they offer the same logic7 as lexicon.

So no one can argue and technicals? I thought as much. I like it when people will rave about a product but then can not back anything up when the case is taken off. Do a double blind test and you will not be able to tell the difference.

 

[bandphan]

Thanks for the insight your thoughts have changed my whole outlook on audio equipment, what is your profession of choice? Oh and can you help me with soft head lures in miami, i know they manufacture sex toys as well as trolling lures

 

[asahikasei]

Again this just shows that you are incapable of carrying on a discussion.

 

[bandphan]

sorry didnt mean to dissapoint, do something worth while like solve the food shortages in africa, since you have nothing better to do but provoke others, if you knew anything at all about manufacturing....... well you dont. Why does mercedes charge more for s55 than e55 when they have the same exact engine(the thing that makes the car go)???? Just drop the bs, and split

 

[asahikasei]

since you have nothing better to do but provoke others

Provoke? How so, why does it make you mad when you find out that the high end audio processors are nothing special?

if you knew anything at all about manufacturing....... well you dont.

Oh I will agree that it costs lexicon more to make their products over a name brand receiver but don't think for one second that the sound would be superior.

 

[bandphan]

im not mad. Someone posting their "OPINIONS" on the net doesnt make me mad, as you know your opinion is the only right answer, if someone stated that there is better sound, you would rip right in. So tell me why would anyone buy a more expensive product that shares some components with less expensive product, based on your logic?? Give up, your opinions dont matter to others as has been pointed out. You still have zero facts as to the whooooole picture. Double blind is a nice word, do you really think that your smarter than everyone that purchases highend equipment? It goes to your level of maturity. They day i get mad at a troll, is when the bait is spinning and the seas are rough. Enjoy your weekend, have fun with what you do and know that karma will catch up to us all.