Less than 1,000$ Subwoofer options – Suggestions?

[speakerman39]

A lot of the smaller subs are sealed. Sealed subs typically need beefier amps for the same output volume.

Like I said I have been wrong before........LOL!!!!! This is what I meant to say. Thanks for mentioning this.

 

[gene]

Okay, I'll bite - why do you say this? Do you mean that you'd stick to boxes rather than cylinders in general, or just for the OP's usage? What are the factors that made you make this recommendation?

Cylinders have to be rather large to yield equivalent volume of a box product. You also have to take great care in adequately bracing these products (moreso IMO) than a box product of equivalent volume. Cosmetically, I think boxes blend in a room better (personal preference).

That being said one can make a sub perform well in almost any form factor assuming they can live with it in their room decor.

 

[Sheep]

Cylinders have to be rather large to yield equivalent volume of a box product. You also have to take great care in adequately bracing these products (moreso IMO) than a box product of equivalent volume. Cosmetically, I think boxes blend in a room better (personal preference).

That being said one can make a sub perform well in almost any form factor assuming they can live with it in their room decor.

But with the cylinder being round, wouldn't it be fairly free of resonance?

Also, they are pretty big, so the volume is made up for.

SheepStar

 

[gene]

But with the cylinder being round, wouldn't it be fairly free of resonance?

Sure about as free as a coke bottle or pipe organ

No t-shirt for you now sheep

 

[Sheep]

Sure about as free as a coke bottle or pipe organ

No t-shirt for you now sheep

Could you maybe point out where the Ill-effects of this "resonance" are, and how they make it lesser then the box subwoofer?

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4222&rid=0&SQ=0

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4224&rid=0&SQ=0

SheepStar

 

[j_garcia]

There is a reason why all pressurized vessles are round or cylindrical...

 

[pbarach1]

another suggestion: M&K

I have had an M&K V-75MKII sub. I use it for movies and classical music and it's good for both. It plays plenty loud in my 3000 sq. ft. living room and goes down to 20 Hz. They have some MkIV models of this sub at a good discount price right now (I just ordered one to complement my B&W 704's in a 2-channel system), and they are available in four different finishes at the moment. The subs have a phase switch, low-pass filter with adjustable frequency, and adjustable volume level. They accept either line-level or high-level inputs. The price is excellent and their sales/tech support is terrific. For example, I emailed a question on a Saturday and got an answer the following day from M&K's chief engineer.
http://www.mksoundstore.com/store/merchant.ihtml?pid=233&step=4

I also considered Hsu and SVSsound (which is in Girard, Ohio, by the way--near Columbus). Nothing against their products, which I haven't heard, but this M&K is a great value.

 

[gene]

Could you maybe point out where the Ill-effects of this "resonance" are, and how they make it lesser then the box subwoofer?

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....222&rid=0&SQ=0

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....224&rid=0&SQ=0

SheepStar

If you have a box sub with 20” walls or s^3 = 8,000in^3 and want the same volume in a cylinder sub:

Let’s say the cylinder was 16” in diameter, then the length would have to be:
V = pi*r^2*h
8000 = 3.14(8^2)*h => h = 40”

The panel resonance of a 20” box sub is: ¼ * 1100 / 1.667 = 165 Hz

If we calculate it for the Cylinder, it’s essentially ½ that since the length is now doubled:

¼ * 1100/3.33 = 82 Hz.

Thus the dominant resonance is right in the passband of the sub. Greater care must be taken to avoid it from becoming audible. Frequency response measurements won’t reveal this, you need to run acccelorameter tests.

Cylinders have more cabinet wall to excite which can result in more diaphragmatic action.

It’s been my experience that many of the cylinder subs (from car audio) use cardboard rather than MDF and aren’t well braced. There are exceptions of course and you can still do a great sub as a cylinder if its done right. At the end of the day, careful design and execution can offset distadvantages of any design. Proper engineering is more important than the actual shape or form of the box.

 

[abboudc]

Here are a couple of pages that explain resonance in closed cylinders. It's basically what Gene says above...
Closed Cylinders
Resonance Calculator

 

[mike c]

that sucks ... i was leaning towards the cylinders myself.

 

[u2generator]

This hasn't changed my mind about cylinders. They get too good of reviews to discount. I can hide one behind my cabinet.

TW

 

[Sheep]

What was said is true if SVS hasn't taken the measures to push the resonance out of the pass band.

Buckeyefan 1 visited the headquarters and said the cylinders and boxes sounded the same.

SheepStar

 

[mike c]

IIRC buckeye said he preferred the boxes

i like the fact the cylinders have such small footprints

 

[MACCA350]

that sucks ... i was leaning towards the cylinders myself.

Mike, you planning on setting up another HT room, or selling the DD

cheers

 

[mike c]

Mike, you planning on setting up another HT room, or selling the DD

cheers

i feel the DD is UNDERutlized in my HT setup seeing how pretty flat my frequency response is ... but I'll never sell it, maybe move it to a 2 channel setup or something. (but i'm still debating myself on why I need a 2 channel setup - when I barely have the time to listen to music)

OR

I would like a dedicated HT room for myself ... hopefully when a baby comes along, i'll have reason to move things around

I just want to try the SVS subwoofers in the 12 or 10hz tunes

I am getting close to ONLY using one sub on my HT though ... I'm experimenting with 40-50hz 6db boost to simulate the "bass boosts" car amplifiers have - maybe that's what I'm looking for.

 

[j_garcia]

I think that is what a lot of people expect in their bass, and that is why lesser subs do well with the general public - boost and artificial bloat, and the good old 40-50Hz hump. Most people don't know what flat response sounds like. When I heard the DD-15 that was kind of how I felt too, it was great, but I was a little underwhelmed due to the extremely even response. It sounds great for sure, but it just didn't have the impact.

 

[abboudc]

This hasn't changed my mind about cylinders. They get too good of reviews to discount. I can hide one behind my cabinet.

TW

Cylinders have their advantages and disadvantages, as do boxes. Boxes have other problems to combat, like corners The engineers just have different problems to solve in each design.

I own both and can say, sonically they're equals. It comes down to placement options and finish -- boxes have the advantage there.

 

[Sheep]

It’s been my experience that many of the cylinder subs (from car audio) use cardboard rather than MDF and aren’t well braced. There are exceptions of course and you can still do a great sub as a cylinder if its done right. At the end of the day, careful design and execution can offset distadvantages of any design. Proper engineering is more important than the actual shape or form of the box.

Question:

Did your calculations take the 1.5inch HDF end caps into play? Wouldn't those raise the Resonance well above the pass band? (Sorry, I don't know the equations for determining the value).

SheepStar

 

[dentman67]

MikeC,
If you really wanted to go with a tube style sub then by all means do it. I've spent time with both designs and trust me the performance is so similar that you would never be able to tell them apart .
Watch what you take as fact on any internet audio forum becuase before you know it you'll be buying $1000.00 power cords and $500.00 interconnects .

 

[mike c]

MikeC,
If you really wanted to go with a tube style sub then by all means do it. I've spent time with both designs and trust me the performance is so similar that you would never be able to tell them apart .
Watch what you take as fact on any internet audio forum becuase before you know it you'll be buying $1000.00 power cords and $500.00 interconnects .

haha, I won't fall into the power cords and cables thing ...
but fortunately, i've been exposed to equal doses of preaching by the camps of "all amps sound the same" and "better amps sound better"

still trying to convince the wife though that my cheapest upgrade today would be another sub. tough sell when I have 4 subwoofers in our living area.