Legacy Studio HD vs KEF LS50

<eargiant

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
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#1
Looking for my next stand-mount speaker. Was looking at the <$1.5K range.

While they are a bit over the price range I was considering for this set-up, the Studio HD have piqued my interest. I have not auditioned the Studios yet. Has anyone here listened to both of these speakers?

Aside from the obvious differences in low end range, how does the mid-range and treble compare?
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
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#2
I can't help with your question, but noticed these are on sale through May 1st.
If you use the promo code "TAXBREAK", the price for the Dynaudio Excite X14A drops to $1019.15/pr. with free shipping.
https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...ffiliate&utm_campaign=3647&utm_content=8-9598

I've heard good things about Dynaudio, but know nothing more about them.

Of course my recommendation would be the Philharmonic BMR's for $1350 plus shipping, but you already know about them!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#3
You need to list all the speakers you currently own in your signature.

I thought you already owned LS50?
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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#4
From what I can see you would end up paying a lot of premium for the good look of those speakers. Based on the available measurements I doubt they are as accurate as the LS50 that you mentioned before that you were also considering. Regarding the LS50, a few posters on AH like them, and a few dislike them. According to Stereophile and Soundstage, the LS50s do have good measurements (obviously there are some on AH who disagreed as well). The mentioned BMR seem to be very cost effective and likely are accurate monitors with better low end extension. I haven't auditioned them yet, and haven't seem any measurements either but hopefully soon.
 
<eargiant

<eargiant

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#5
I can't help with your question, but noticed these are on sale through May 1st.
If you use the promo code "TAXBREAK", the price for the Dynaudio Excite X14A drops to $1019.15/pr. with free shipping.
https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...ffiliate&utm_campaign=3647&utm_content=8-9598

I've heard good things about Dynaudio, but know nothing more about them.

Of course my recommendation would be the Philharmonic BMR's for $1350 plus shipping, but you already know about them!
Thanks for the suggestions. I considered the BMRs but they are larger than what I would like for this application.

You need to list all the speakers you currently own in your signature.

I thought you already owned LS50?
No LS50s yet but I've heard them several times.

From what I can see you would end up paying a lot of premium for the good look of those speakers. Based on the available measurements I doubt they are as accurate as the LS50 that you mentioned before that you were also considering. Regarding the LS50, a few posters on AH like them, and a few dislike them. According to Stereophile and Soundstage, the LS50s do have good measurements (obviously there are some on AH who disagreed as well). The mentioned BMR seem to be very cost effective and likely are accurate monitors with better low end extension. I haven't auditioned them yet, and haven't seem any measurements either but hopefully soon.
Do you drive your LS50s full range?
 
S

snakeeyes

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#7
These look very impressive. I like how the Ascend Sierra2 has a center model with the tweeter oriented to the side for being laid on its side.
Do the mini phils have a similiar option? I apologize if I’m asking something obvious but I am very curious about decent bookshelf speakers and I like the idea of all 3 being matched. :)
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
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1,951 3
#8
These look very impressive. I like how the Ascend Sierra2 has a center model with the tweeter oriented to the side for being laid on its side.
Do the mini phils have a similiar option? I apologize if I’m asking something obvious but I am very curious about decent bookshelf speakers and I like the idea of all 3 being matched. :)
Any of my models with the Raal tweeter can be placed on their side with tweeter rotated. I'm not so sure I would agree that the mini-monitor (ported) goes deeper than the LS-50. 55 Hz is pretty much the lower limit.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
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5,840 22 38
#9
These look very impressive. I like how the Ascend Sierra2 has a center model with the tweeter oriented to the side for being laid on its side.
Do the mini phils have a similiar option? I apologize if I’m asking something obvious but I am very curious about decent bookshelf speakers and I like the idea of all 3 being matched. :)
http://philharmonicaudio.com/PhilMTMCenter.html
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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5,516 9 1
#10
Thanks for the suggestions. I considered the BMRs but they are larger than what I would like for this application.



No LS50s yet but I've heard them several times.



Do you drive your LS50s full range?
Only in the beginning. It sounded good in pure direct, but audibly better to me in Stereo with sub XO at 100 and best with JRiver parametric EQ filters setup with REW.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

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#11
I get the feeling that you will probably prefer the Legacy Audio speakers over the KEF.

I saw a few Legacy speaker measurements (Stereophile and Audioholics),and they look more similar to the B&W Diamond speakers than the KEF speakers.

The FR graphs of the KEF is just too flat, linear, and boring, not as exciting and wavy with a few decibel peaks in the treble region like the B&W and Legacy.
 
<eargiant

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
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192 38 2
#12
Only in the beginning. It sounded good in pure direct, but audibly better to me in Stereo with sub XO at 100 and best with JRiver parametric EQ filters setup with REW.
Thanks. Do you toe them in or aim them directly into the room? What about listening distance, spacing, stands, etc.?

I get the feeling that you will probably prefer the Legacy Audio speakers over the KEF.

I saw a few Legacy speaker measurements (Stereophile and Audioholics),and they look more similar to the B&W Diamond speakers than the KEF speakers.

The FR graphs of the KEF is just too flat, linear, and boring, not as exciting and wavy with a few decibel peaks in the treble region like the B&W and Legacy.
You'd be surprised. Even John Atkinson says that "After a quarter century of measuring the performance of audio components for this magazine, I'm not so sure that we have a firm handle on what makes audio products sound different from one another. Even when it comes to measuring loudspeakers, it can be difficult to characterize their performance in an objective manner."

I have the CM5 which sound-wise are clearly family members of the 805D2 (unlike the previous 600 series which I did not really care for) yet the CM5 are handily outdone by the 805D2. Regardless, I love the CM5 and still have them in my home office. Other speakers have come and gone but they have remained. They're actually the reason I bought the 805D2. I would listen to the CM5s and always wished that my other speakers would have that type of midrange resolution and clarity- no thickness or reverb. And no, in case anyone's wondering - it's not a brightness thing.

I've listened to the LS50s on several occasions (but never in my home) and liked them each time. Most recently I auditioned them and compared them side by side with the R300. The LS50 were IMO the clear winners because they had that transparency and detail in the mid-range that I like and no thickness which I hate. Clearly a true hi-fidelity speaker. A speaker like that can give you a taste of what is possible when you jump to something like the 805D2.

A lot of good suggestions- thanks to all. Anyway, I purchased the LS50. I think they will be perfect for the room I plan to put them in and I suspect I'll like them just as I like my CM5 and 805D2. Time will tell...


This is how the LS50 & CM5 measured in JAs listening room.

"The red trace in fig.7 again shows the spatially averaged in-room response of the KEF LS50s, this time compared with the spatially averaged response of the Bowers & Wilkins CM5 speakers (green trace). The two speakers' in-room behavior is very similar in the lower midrange and bass, but the CM5 excites the lowest-frequency room mode more than does the LS50, resulting in better low-frequency extension. Though the KEF has less energy apparent in the upper midrange, the B&W is more laid-back in the low treble. However, the extra energy above 5kHz produced in-room by the CM5 lent it a lighter balance overall. The B&W's high-amplitude tweeter resonance just below 30kHz makes its presence known in this graph, but this is well above what anyone can hear."
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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#13
Thanks. Do you toe them in or aim them directly into the room? What about listening distance, spacing, stands, etc.?
I tried from 0 toe in to extreme, ended up with the simple toe in that aims to my ears sitting in the middle. Distance is about 9 ft, optimum could have been 6-8 ft but it wouldn't look good in that room. I put them on the KEF stands.

You'd be surprised. Even John Atkinson says that "After a quarter century of measuring the performance of audio components for this magazine, I'm not so sure that we have a firm handle on what makes audio products sound different from one another. Even when it comes to measuring loudspeakers, it can be difficult to characterize their performance in an objective manner."
Not surprised at all, that's part of why I gave up on subjective reviews long time ago. I go by specs and measurements first, then unless I hear something obviously wrong, I would force myself not to go by ears, though it has not happened to me yet. That is, never have to force myself. If specs and measurements are good, my ears would usually go along.

I have the CM5 which sound-wise are clearly family members of the 805D2 (unlike the previous 600 series which I did not really care for) yet the CM5 are handily outdone by the 805D2. Regardless, I love the CM5 and still have them in my home office. Other speakers have come and gone but they have remained. They're actually the reason I bought the 805D2. I would listen to the CM5s and always wished that my other speakers would have that type of midrange resolution and clarity- no thickness or reverb. And no, in case anyone's wondering - it's not a brightness thing.
I don't know about the D2/D3, but I almost bought the 805D years ago when I was shopping for my HT system upgrade, ended up with the Veritas V2.3i because in a side by side comparison the Veritas obviously had a fully sound. That's not a fair comparison, and at the time I was biased towards towers.

I've listened to the LS50s on several occasions (but never in my home) and liked them each time. Most recently I auditioned them and compared them side by side with the R300. The LS50 were IMO the clear winners because they had that transparency and detail in the mid-range that I like and no thickness which I hate. Clearly a true hi-fidelity speaker. A speaker like that can give you a taste of what is possible when you jump to something like the 805D2.
That's how I felt too comparing mine to the much larger R900, side by side though obviously not in the same location. Without the sub, I prefer the R900, with the sub on, it's a tough call. LS50 sounds more transparent but the R900 have a wider soundstage. I am happy to have both.
 
<eargiant

<eargiant

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#14
I tried from 0 toe in to extreme, ended up with the simple toe in that aims to my ears sitting in the middle. Distance is about 9 ft, optimum could have been 6-8 ft but it wouldn't look good in that room. I put them on the KEF stands.
I'll let you know what I end up with when I've fiddled with them for a while. Of course, there are always room constraints to deal with. I also ordered the KEF GFS-524 stands but I'm not too convinced I will like their looks when I see them live. It's either going to be them or my Atacama Reference 724s but I will definitely have to fill the Atacamas because they ring like bells :D.

Not surprised at all, that's part of why I gave up on subjective reviews long time ago. I go by specs and measurements first, then unless I hear something obviously wrong, I would force myself not to go by ears, though it has not happened to me yet. That is, never have to force myself. If specs and measurements are good, my ears would usually go along.
I've actualy found some subjective reviews that were spot on. But of course you have to have heard the speaker before reading the review to know that for sure. So it's them agreeing with you and not the other way around.

My ears are a bit more cynical than yours when it comes to measurements. I seen great measurements that sounded like crap and others that sounded great. In the end I trust my ears because they are the ones hearing the speakers in the room I'm in, not where they were measured.

I don't know about the D2/D3, but I almost bought the 805D years ago when I was shopping for my HT system upgrade, ended up with the Veritas V2.3i because in a side by side comparison the Veritas obviously had a fully sound. That's not a fair comparison, and at the time I was biased towards towers.
I was like that too but now I'm a Stand-Mount + Sub believer. Especially for the rooms in my house. It also add more flexibility for placement so things don't get boomy or muddled.

That's how I felt too comparing mine to the much larger R900, side by side though obviously not in the same location. Without the sub, I prefer the R900, with the sub on, it's a tough call. LS50 sounds more transparent but the R900 have a wider soundstage. I am happy to have both.
Yeah, I have a sub paired with the 805D2 and it makes a huge difference. That pairing is actually the best I have ever owned, it lacks nothing. I usually get itchy and keep replacing speakers to get whatever I feel is missing from their presentation but in over 2 years I haven't even thought of replacing 805D2 + Sub pairing. They still make the hairs on my arms and the back of my neck stand on end with their realism and complete sound. They're everything I could ever hope for in a speaker.

Depending on how the LS50s interact with the room to fill in the low end, I may add a sub down the road. We'll see. Looking forward to experimenting with them.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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#15
I'll let you know what I end up with when I've fiddled with them for a while. Of course, there are always room constraints to deal with. I also ordered the KEF GFS-524 stands but I'm not too convinced I will like their looks when I see them live. It's either going to be them or my Atacama Reference 724s but I will definitely have to fill the Atacamas because they ring like bells :D.



I've actualy found some subjective reviews that were spot on. But of course you have to have heard the speaker before reading the review to know that for sure. So it's them agreeing with you and not the other way around.

My ears are a bit more cynical than yours when it comes to measurements. I seen great measurements that sounded like crap and others that sounded great. In the end I trust my ears because they are the ones hearing the speakers in the room I'm in, not where they were measured.



I was like that too but now I'm a Stand-Mount + Sub believer. Especially for the rooms in my house. It also add more flexibility for placement so things don't get boomy or muddled.



Yeah, I have a sub paired with the 805D2 and it makes a huge difference. That pairing is actually the best I have ever owned, it lacks nothing. I usually get itchy and keep replacing speakers to get whatever I feel is missing from their presentation but in over 2 years I haven't even thought of replacing 805D2 + Sub pairing. They still make the hairs on my arms and the back of my neck stand on end with their realism and complete sound. They're everything I could ever hope for in a speaker.

Depending on how the LS50s interact with the room to fill in the low end, I may add a sub down the road. We'll see. Looking forward to experimenting with them.
I referred to measurements in anechoic chamber, not in someone's room. If a full set of measurements like JA's are good, the speaker will sound better than those that measured bad, all else being equal.
 
P

PENG

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#16
How big is the room? Even in my 11x23x8, the sub makes a big difference. EQ also helped, in sharpening the imaging.
 
<eargiant

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
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#17
How big is the room? Even in my 11x23x8, the sub makes a big difference.
I agree 100%. I have the 805D2 in a room very similar in size to yours (12x20x8) and the sub completed the picture.

The LS50 are going in a much smaller section of an L shaped room. The listening space is only 11x13x7. I plan to start by setting them ~5-6 ft apart and listen from a distance of ~8-9 ft. Either way, I will be missing the low end content on some material but that may be acceptable. If not, a sub that is smaller than my REL S/2 should do the trick in that space. I'm hoping the LS50 can handle the dynamic range of slightly higher SPL because I'd like to run them full range regardless of whether I add a sub or not.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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#18
I agree 100%. I have the 805D2 in a room very similar in size to yours (12x20x8) and the sub completed the picture.

The LS50 are going in a much smaller section of an L shaped room. The listening space is only 11x13x7. I plan to start by setting them ~5-6 ft apart and listen from a distance of ~8-9 ft. Either way, I will be missing the low end content on some material but that may be acceptable. If not, a sub that is smaller than my REL S/2 should do the trick in that space. I'm hoping the LS50 can handle the dynamic range of slightly higher SPL because I'd like to run them full range regardless of whether I add a sub or not.
They are not very sensitive so if you don't want to miss the fully dynamic capability you have to crank the volume up to make up for it. If you do feel a sub is needed, I highly recommend Rythmik's seal type, that I find is a good match for their inherently tighter mid bass. I have one 15", if I had the room I would have preferred two of the 12" version, but the R900s sitting right nest to them left me with no such option.

So it seems like we both like British designed speakers.:)
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

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#19
I agree 100%. I have the 805D2 in a room very similar in size to yours (12x20x8) and the sub completed the picture.

The LS50 are going in a much smaller section of an L shaped room. The listening space is only 11x13x7. I plan to start by setting them ~5-6 ft apart and listen from a distance of ~8-9 ft. Either way, I will be missing the low end content on some material but that may be acceptable. If not, a sub that is smaller than my REL S/2 should do the trick in that space. I'm hoping the LS50 can handle the dynamic range of slightly higher SPL because I'd like to run them full range regardless of whether I add a sub or not.
Seems you'll have a pretty good setup. Not ideal, not perfect, but few of us have that. One of the attributes of those speakers is that they do perform admirably under a wide range of conditions. Mine are (for now) a desktop application and it's an uncharacteristically tight soundstage like that. It's really good, don't get me wrong, just that I do have to be sitting exactly in the right spot for best effect.

Have you got them yet? I don't know what the future is for the passive version though I expect KEF will make the wireless one for a few more years before a change. BTW, there are people who seem to insist upon giving the LS50's 300 or more watt amps. Of course the speakers can never use all that without flames erupting but they claim the speakers need excess power to sound their best. Mine are powered by a 60w/ch Bluesound Powernode 2 and that goes loud enough to drive me out of the room.

Best of luck to you. Do report back with your impressions.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
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#20
BTW, there are people who seem to insist upon giving the LS50's 300 or more watt amps. Of course the speakers can never use all that without flames erupting but they claim the speakers need excess power to sound their best. Mine are powered by a 60w/ch Bluesound Powernode 2 and that goes loud enough to drive me out of the room.

Best of luck to you. Do report back with your impressions.
I thought yours were the active versions, no?

Those who insists in 300 W or more even if the speakers can never use all that....simply don't believe in science and there is nothing we can say to convince them. The plain fact is, if the voltage, current, hence power is not used, it has no effect. For the >300 W to make a difference, it means one has to drive them to produce probably at least double the spl the speakers are rated to produce at 1 meter, that would be about 109 dB. At that level, I would expect distortions will increase to the point it would be quite audible.

As I mentioned too, the LS50 (passive) are not too sensitive, compare to my R900 sitting right next to them, I have to crank the volume a few notches higher. The truth is, the specs call for amplifier requirement of 25 - 100 W, that typically means you can get the best performance out of them by using a 200/300 WPC amp but only if you also need them to work at or near their limit. In eargiant's room, I am 100% sure his A-S801 or similarly rated amp will be more than enough.
 

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