Leftist GWB to freeze Mortage Rates?

[Highlander]

If nothing is done, politically speaking, and nothing should be IMHO, our economy will be in a well-deserved recession.

Come on America! Go for it! The evil r-word occurring may just tip the U.K. over the edge too!

Bring it on I say.

 

[stratman]

In Florida ONLY! Europe might be our salvation, I was speaking to an analyst this afternoon, its his opinion (and a few of his colleagues) that the strong Euro will spur a European real state investment cycle, why Florida? It's a service state, no city taxes, the ocean, weather, plenty of foreclosures, banks and investors panting to sell bad mortgages and the fact that Europeans are buying with a 47% leverage. Come on Robbie seaside condo?

 

[Tomorrow]

Naw S-man...Robbie might be right. I think we can prove that we can drag the rest of the world into "R", too. We ARE the leader amongst nations, are we not?

 

[stratman]

I'm not holding my breath, but if it pans out as these gentlemen think it will....great, if not c'est la vie! Get ready for banks declaring insolvency.

 

[Highlander]

...the strong Euro will spur a European real state investment cycle, why Florida? It's a service state, no city taxes, the ocean, weather, plenty of foreclosures, banks and investors panting to sell bad mortgages and the fact that Europeans are buying with a 47% leverage. Come on Robbie seaside condo?

Ha! Actually, the thought has crossed my mind. But, upon serious reflection, I have realised that the ambient noise of turquoise water gently lapping fine sandy beaches like a lover's caress would be too loud when listening to music.

One must have standards Stratman.

...why Florida? It's a service state, no city taxes, the ocean, weather...

Hurricanes.

I think we can prove that we can drag the rest of the world into "R", too.

Somewhat selfishly considering only my own situation here (that's business), I hope so. House prices in the U.K. are estimated to be overvalued by up to 30 to 40%. At the very least a significant correction is in order. On the other hand a slump will suit me nicely thank you very much.

 

[mtrycrafts]

GWB has turned into a leftist.....whoda thunk?

It seems that President "Amnesty" now has plans for government intervention where it has no business getting involved.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071206/ap_on_bi_ge/mortgage_crisis

The Republican who becomes our new president in 2009 will hopefully reverse GWBs ongoing leftist agenda instituted at the tail end of his presidency.

You mean he is a flip-flopper now? Left side right side, finger in the wind?

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Hillary scares the death out of me...

SBF1

Why? I think she is going to be a good president. Certainly much better than what we have now ( not that that would take much!)

 

[Alamar]

Why? I think she is going to be a good president. Certainly much better than what we have now ( not that that would take much!)

I'm not personally convinced that any of the candidates will be a "good" president.

I think that there are many "brick walls" in our future in the range from 2020 to 2050 ... Energy / pollution / social spending / spread of dangerous technology etc. .... A good president will throw on the brakes well in advance of the brick wall ... heck a really good president may even start driving away from the brick wall .... A bad president will hope that airbags save us WHEN we hit a brick wall.

With the Republicans we'll likely hit a brick wall at 85MPH.
With the Democrats we'll hit a brick wall at 95MPH.
With the Libertarians I doubt mom & dad will let them have the car keys

Note each of the above factions will likely hit different brick walls at different times .... It is almost literally "pick your poison".

Also note that, in terms people can understand, I'm basically a "hawkish libertarian" with liberal social tendancies && conservative fiscal leanings.

 

[annunaki]

With our cheap dollar, many companies are starting to look very tempting to foreign investors. If the dollar continues to erode, many "American" companies will fail to be "American" any longer. Take a look at Citibank.

Sure recessions are bad, but they are corrective features in a dynamic economy. Sometimes they almost need to happen??

 

[aberkowitz]

With the Republicans we'll likely hit a brick wall at 85MPH.
With the Democrats we'll hit a brick wall at 95MPH.
With the Libertarians I doubt mom & dad will let them have the car keys

Technically (if you want to go by political definitions), the libertarians parents will not only let them have the car keys, but they won't ask any questions when they buy them a new more pimped-out car after the first one was crashed into the wall at 157 mph while not wearing a seatbelt b/c the govt shouldn't legislate speed limits, seatbelt laws, or the DUI requirements .

Just to add something interesting to the conversation, the WSJ had a really good article last week speaking about how a sizeable majority of the folks who took out subprime loans actually could have qualified for non-subprime loans with better rates but opted not to for a variety of reasons. These folks had credit scores that were at least 650 and in some cases above 720, but either didn't want to deal with the paperwork and length of time it took to get a conventional mortgage, or wanted to borrow much larger amounts than a conventional mortgage would get them, so they took a shortcut and went with a subprime. These people are the ones who are keeping up quite well with their payments and will be generally able to handle rate resets come February. It was the assertion of several experts that these are the folks who will help keep the mortgage market from completely self-destructing since they will be able to afford to continue to pay their mortgages and won't require a bailout.

I personally believe that there's culpability on all sides. The banks should have had stronger controls and stricter standards over who they were lending to, the mortgage brokers should have had better accountability and should not have engaged in dirty practices, the securitizers of the loans should have taken more care to understand the products that were underwriting their securities and ratings agencies shouldn't have been fooled by securitization tricks, and just as important home buyers shouldn't have signed papers that they didn't understand or couldn't read. It was just one big clusterf*** that everybody screwed up on.

 

[stratman]

To surmise: GREED.

 

[Alamar]

Technically (if you want to go by political definitions), the libertarians parents will not only let them have the car keys, but they won't ask any questions when they buy them a new more pimped-out car after the first one was crashed into the wall at 157 mph while not wearing a seatbelt b/c the govt shouldn't legislate speed limits, seatbelt laws, or the DUI requirements .

I see that you didn't understand by what I meant by Mom & Dad but that's OK.

As far as libertarians go they may not mind speeding or any other behaviour as long as it will not effect the rights of others. So if you want to build your own road on your own property and then drive around then that's fine with them as long as you're not making too much noise ..... However once you get onto public roads where potentially bad behaviour can effect others then you'll see a different attitude.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I see that you didn't understand by what I meant by Mom & Dad but that's OK.

As far as libertarians go they may not mind speeding or any other behaviour as long as it will not effect the rights of others. So if you want to build your own road on your own property and then drive around then that's fine with them as long as you're not making too much noise ..... However once you get onto public roads where potentially bad behaviour can effect others then you'll see a different attitude.

Well put. The most common misunderstanding about libertarians is that they believe "anything goes". In fact, they support laws that protect people from one-another.

 

[aberkowitz]

Well put. The most common misunderstanding about libertarians is that they believe "anything goes". In fact, they support laws that protect people from one-another.

Yes and no. There are 2 schools of libertarian thought- one is the school that you've referred to who believe in maximizing well-being and efficiency for society. There is also a much more militant/absolutist school of libertarian thought that eschews all formal government regulation and believes that society will come to self-regulate based on morals, norms, codes of behavior, etc.

One of my best friends in college wrote his masters thesis on the principals of libertarianism and how they would have better served the US in its handling of major US events (e.g. Civil Rights battles of the 60s, Rodney King riots)- so I used to get quite an earful during our weekly happy hours about why my political views were wrong and how we all should be libetarians!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I used to get quite an earful during our weekly happy hours about why my political views were wrong and how we all should be libetarians!

I have considered joining the libertarian party. The problem with that is that they never win any major elections.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I have considered joining the libertarian party. The problem with that is that they never win any major elections.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Sooo.... you're really a liberterian, but since they don't win elections.......you've decided to vote for the party who wants big government control over everything and everyone?

LOL.....

Please explain yourself further......

 

[Joe Schmoe]

That makes no sense whatsoever. Sooo.... you're really a liberterian, but since they don't win elections.......you've decided to vote for the party who wants big government control over everything and everyone?

LOL.....

Please explain yourself further......

It is so simple that even you might be capable of understanding it: Voting for someone who cannot win is effectively throwing a vote away. I would rather use it for a democrat who stands a chance of winning, as this improves the odds of not getting stuck with another 4 years of worthless republican scum.
I wish Ralph Nader had not run last time for exactly this reason.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

It is so simple that even you might be capable of understanding it: Voting for someone who cannot win is effectively throwing a vote away. I would rather use it for a democrat who stands a chance of winning, as this improves the odds of not getting stuck with another 4 years of worthless republican scum.

LOL.......

So let me get this straight.....

You are really a libertarian at heart, but since one will never get elected......you cast your vote for the party who in American politics.......their platform basically represents the complete opposite?

My point being is the libertarian platform is more closely aligned with the republican party....not democrat. That's why your previous declaration makes absolutely no sense. Libertarian votes go to the right.....not left.

 

[Alamar]

Yes and no. There are 2 schools of libertarian thought- one is the school that you've referred to who believe in maximizing well-being and efficiency for society. There is also a much more militant/absolutist school of libertarian thought that eschews all formal government regulation and believes that society will come to self-regulate based on morals, norms, codes of behavior, etc.

True. There are the libertarians that are really closer to anarchists (sp?). Then there are the one issue voters (think drug legalization) .... There are plenty of other libertarian stereotypes (sp?) that really hurt the general image that the public has of "libertarians".

I wonder if the libertarian party would be seen as a more viable alternative if it weren't for the other factions dragging down the public's perceptions.

Note: I am NOT a card carrying libertarian. I just have some things in common with that school of thought.

 

[annunaki]

Do you really think the democrats will do any better? Seriously??

When will people realize that they are working together to keep themselves in office. Politicians do not represent the people anymore, just the businesses and special interest groups who contribute to their coffers. As soon as someone asks tough questions or a tough issue comes up, a flare up about abortion or gay marriage or some other controversial subject (a fairly small in significance in the grand scheme of things) comes up to take focus away.

I have given up on the two party system as it is a complete joke. No one stands up for the people anymore or the constitution. Our country will be sold out from underneath us soon enough. The political system is so corrupt it is not even remotely funny.

Buying into the Democrat vs. Republican thing is just what the big government wants. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. Recent elections have shown they are more or less there it is about 50/50. They want to keep us there. If we are too focused on our differences rather than our similarities and the good of the nation as a whole, they will freely do what they please. If you don't believe it works, look how heated some of the discussions get here about political issues.

Our sovereignty as a nation is being eroded away right in front of us and the people are doing nothing about it. They simply believe what they hear and swallow the political partisan bs hook line and sinker just as planned. Very few in this country think for themselves any more. Even fewer are willing to question the reasoning behind those in power over us.

This topic is beginning to get a bit off subject so no offense to the OP.

Edit: I will vote next year. I will "waste" my vote too by voting for a write in or independent candidate as well. If you think voting for the candidate you feel should really have the job is waste, then the Democrats and Republicans have you where they want you. If enough people stand up and "waste" their vote, eventually the two party system could have a 3rd which could change things immensely.