Lead shots

[moves]

It's weird, you are very knowledge yet people don't seem to like you.

I may be way off, just looking at your negative rep.

Get lead shot from an ammo store and seal it in a contractor bag from Home Depot.

yea.. i would just hate to pour sand in a 4k speaker....

 

[Rickster71]

yea.. i would just hate to pour sand in a 4k speaker....

I was thinking the same thing; shouldn't a $4k speaker sound good in stock form?

 

[AJinFLA]

It's weird, you are very knowledge yet people don't seem to like you.

I may be way off, just looking at your negative rep.

Not so sure about the knowledgeable part, but verifiable technical information has a way of upsetting emotionally driven creatures.
I kinda like the Midol Meter

Any idea why one would put lead shot inside(?) of a speaker?

Get lead shot from an ammo store and seal it in a contractor bag from Home Depot.

Or he could go hunting with **** Cheney and get all the lead shot he needs..for free.

cheers,

AJ

 

[KEW]

Can someone explain the purpose of this exercise?
The lead shot/mass goes inside the speaker? Where?
What effect does this have on the sound waves at the listener position??

I don't know if it is actually in the speaker or in a speaker stand, but the idea is to dampen vibrations. Just as shot inside a dead blow hammer keeps the impact from bouncing, a loose medium such as sand or shot coupled to a speaker will tend to hold the speaker box (relatively) still; thus, allowing the motion of the driver to move more air and less energy is lost vibrating the speaker housing/stand, etc. The benefit of using a loose media is from a property called hysteresis.

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA029939

 

[Rickster71]

They recommend it for their floor standers too.
I wouldn't pay $3k -$4k for a speaker that needed to be filled with shot or sand.

From the Totem web site:
Mass Loading

"All Totem floor models work very well without any type of mass loading. However if stability is an issue or if there is a particular over emphasis in the bass in the room they are used in, then mass loading can be experimented with. Variables such as electronics, wiring and room dynamics play a definite role and therefore the option is there for your experimentation.
* If the "Totem Claws" are installed on the Sttaf and Arro then the mass loading option should definitely be experimented with."
Arro 10-20 lbs in each cabinet
Sttaf 5-10 lbs in each cabinet
Hawk 2-10 lbs in each cabinet
Forest 2-15 lbs in each cabinet

 

[Ares]

Moves did your Totem dealer mentioned this to you prior to your purchase?

 

[caper26]

I was thinking some kind of cloth bag with sand or cat litter. We live in a valley so sand is free !

 

[AJinFLA]

I don't know if it is actually in the speaker or in a speaker stand, but the idea is to dampen vibrations. Just as shot inside a dead blow hammer keeps the impact from bouncing, a loose medium such as sand or shot coupled to a speaker will tend to hold the speaker box (relatively) still; thus, allowing the motion of the driver to move more air and less energy is lost vibrating the speaker housing/stand, etc. The benefit of using a loose media is from a property called hysteresis.

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA029939

. There is an ounce of validity to what you are stating, but as far as the driver moving more air, well, that's a stretch, easily disproved. Rather than slog through the physics of why, I just state that if true (it's not), the additional air displacement would result in an increase in sound pressure...and that is measurable.
Wanna bet that there is none (within audibility thresholds, so .001db doesn't count) from adding mass to the speaker?
Now as far as anti-tipping goes, then yeah, that's valid.
Btw, interestingly, they claim the opposite, that adding mass may-

From the Totem web site:
Mass Loading

"All Totem floor models work very well without any type of mass loading. However if stability is an issue or if there is a particular over emphasis in the bass in the room they are used in, then mass loading can be experimented with.

- help reduce amplitude .
There is a lot of silly audiophile nonsense on that site. The part about mass adding for stability is valid though.

cheers,

AJ

 

[highfigh]

. There is an ounce of validity to what you are stating, but as far as the driver moving more air, well, that's a stretch, easily disproved. Rather than slog through the physics of why, I just state that if true (it's not), the additional air displacement would result in an increase in sound pressure...and that is measurable.
Wanna bet that there is none (within audibility thresholds, so .001db doesn't count) from adding mass to the speaker?
Now as far as anti-tipping goes, then yeah, that's valid.
Btw, interestingly, they claim the opposite, that adding mass may-



- help reduce amplitude .
There is a lot of silly audiophile nonsense on that site. The part about mass adding for stability is valid though.

cheers,

AJ

I can see how it would reduce the CG but if they recommend it for deadening cabinet resonances, I have to question their construction practices. Why not just add material to the base and more bracing? It would seem that the same results would be found.

 

[moves]

Moves did your Totem dealer mentioned this to you prior to your purchase?

No he didn't but I was aware of it. I may call him back and see what he has to say about it. check my pics in http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2481&page=35

 

[Ares]

Nice pics I really like the center and the sub are they the C40 and 5i from PSB? couldn't hurt to try let us what he say's.

 

[KEW]

AJ,
I'm not championing this idea.
You had asked why, so I did my best (which isn't too good) to explain it. I was just sharing the theoretical principal behind using shot or sand with a speaker. The theory is proven. Of course it is also proven theory that 10AWG wire will transmit a signal better than 16AWG. However, we all know that the difference between the wire gauges is inaudible for a 4' length.
OTOH, if the speaker wire is 100' long the 10AWG might be a decent plan.

So, is there a practical difference typically realized by adding shot? Are there conditions where the improvement would be audible? Who knows? Not me.
However, I would never say there is no improvement unless I had objective evidence that there was not.

 

[j_garcia]

I have a friend who had some 70s Wharfedales and they had a sand filled lower chamber separate from the speaker enclosure. I don't know if the sand made any difference, but they sounded very nice My guess is they would sound fine without the sand as well.

I doubt it is a factor in the speaker itself, but the additional heft may help keep it in better contact with whatever it is sitting on, adding some additional pressure that allows the speaker utilize the floor almost like part of its structure, or it changes the sympathetic resonance between the cabinet and floor.

 

[chris357]

maybe it allows the manufacture to save money on shipping weight and then if you have problems you add the extra weight at home.... and all the rest is just marketing rationale for them saving money?

i really have no clue or anything I just have to get in on the posting action

 

[j_garcia]

maybe it allows the manufacture to save money on shipping weight and then if you have problems you add the extra weight at home.... and all the rest is just marketing rationale for them saving money?

i really have no clue or anything I just have to get in on the posting action

If you use kitty litter, cats will come sit in your speakers and their fur is a natural dampener. They add additional weight as well

 

[highfigh]

If you use kitty litter, cats will come sit in your speakers and their fur is a natural dampener. They add additional weight as well

Get a couple of these and stuff them in the boxes-

 

[moves]

Nice pics I really like the center and the sub are they the C40 and 5i from PSB? couldn't hurt to try let us what he say's.

ummm the center is an image (older version) I forget what model. I bought it about 7 years ago. The sub is the 5i from PSB.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Anyone know what type of store I could find these in? I tried Home depot and big building supply stores but no dice.

I want them to mass load my totems.

Or, since you are looking for weight, why not get the lead used in scuba diver's belt, if you have such stores in your area.

 

[AJinFLA]

AJ,
I'm not championing this idea.

I understood that. You were just trying to clarify what is claimed.
That said, what is claimed (in terms of sonics) is highly dubious.
Stability issues, absolutely.
Heck, lay 'em face down, fill the cavity with some Quikrete....and when it's time to sell 'em, say "local pick up only".

cheers,

AJ

 

[caper26]

if you just need weight, tire shops have used buckets of the little lead weights for balancing tires!