Last-year(?) Yamaha and Denon models

G

Gimli

Audiophyte
Hello. I used to post here occasionally some 5 years ago, but now I couldn't remember my old username, so I re-registered. Not a beginner, but I haven't been in the market for any HT stuff in a few years, so I have some catching up to do on newer technologies and new products.

Let me start with direct questions, and then I'll try to follow up with another post with preemptive answers to likely questions about budget, other gear, room, etc.

OK, I am looking at the following receiver deals available on Amazon these days:

Denon AVR-988 ... $540
Denon AVR-888 ... $350
Yamaha RX-V861 ... $399

Now I've always shopped for either used or discontinued equipment and know that prices drop a lot when models get replaced, but 50-60%? Those look like pretty amazing deals to me... but then again, I haven't followed the market in the last few years, so maybe this is now pretty standard clearance pricing for discontinued models.

So that's my main question: Are these really hot deals or do I need to recalibrate my expectations for prices of discontinued models?

A few more questions (and I am curious regardless of the answer to the above):

How is Denon 988 different from 2808CI? I looked up the new models (989 and 2809CI) on Denon's site, and the specs/features look almost identical (the only difference being something about the remote control for zone 2).

Same question about Denon 888 and 2308CI. (The newer models seem identical although 2309CI is priced $50 higher than 889.) If I am not missing something, what is the story about Denon making the same product under two different model numbers? Different distribution channels, perhaps? Last time I looked at Denon's receivers, they started from 1604 (or so) and I don't remember any 3-digit models. Is my memory bad?

I've read the rave reviews of the new Yamahas, 663 and 863, and started my search with 663 in mind. I remember reading a post on this forum about those models probably sharing the same amplifiers as the 861 (inherited, in turn, from the 59 series). And I found a positive Audioholics review of 661, but not the same excitement as about the 63 series. So, is it safe to assume that 861 is much like 863, just one model generation older, or was the update unusually thorough this time?

I am always more of a value shopper than an early adopter, so if the new features in the new models are somewhat arcane, I can live without them even if they are very cool. On the other hand, I am not necessarily in a hurry to buy, so if the new models are really that much better, I could wait until they become last-year's models...

Thanks to everyone patient enough to read this, let alone answer. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Gimli,

Welcome to the forum!!! I will take a stab at some of your questions:

1. The models your were questioning are the same....the 988 and 888/2808 and 2308. It's just that the 988 and 888 were models that were sold through big box stores like Circuit City and such....And as you mentioned, yes, the remotes differ a little bit...

Now as for the deals you got through amazon I think the AVR-988 for $540 is awesome as the 988/2808 was a $1,200 AVR...I had the 987 and thought it was great and recently upgraded to the 3808 for some added features....I have no doubt the 988 will be great for you...The price on the 888 is very good as well. It really comes down to your needs and usage to determine whether you need the 988...

Now as for your Yammy question I cannot help you there as I don't know their products that well but from what I have heard, toyed with in store, and read online I would go with the Denon over Yamaha at this price point...
 
G

Gimli

Audiophyte
some clarifications

Thanks Chopin_Guy for the response, and here is my promised follow-up.

None of what follows is directly related to my questions above, so if you think my questions are clear enough, you can just skip this post. But in case people want to know more about why I'm asking, how the receiver would be used, and with what other equipment, here is more information than you require. (And really, I didn't ask "which one of these should I get", so none of that should be pertinent. But perhaps it can help anyway. If nothing else, I might link to it when I ask more questions in the future. :))

I have been rethinking my HT setup not because I'm unhappy with the gear, but because what I have is not serving my practical needs. I live in a fairly small house with my wife and 2 kids, and I have much less time than I'd like to enjoy movies and music, so lots of compromises are necessary, beginning with no fully dedicated HT room.

Currently my AV equipment is split between 2 rooms, a rec room in the basement being a roughy half-dedicated movie room, and the living room serving, among dozens of other purposes, as the music listening room. Both rooms are far from ideal. The rec room almost exactly 20x10 (2:1 ratio, don't look at me, I didn't design the house :)) and open (w/o door) to a hallway leading to stairs. As part of the room serves other purposes, the part used for watching movies takes up just a bit over half the room - about 12x10 - and feels small. In the room I have a 42" Hitachi rear-projection TV, Panasonic DVD-F87 DVD-player, Panasonic SA-HE100 Receiver, and Hsu Ventriloquist VT-12 speakers with Hsu STF-2 subwoofer. The receiver is from 2002, the rest from 2004. I probably spent less than $1,700 total on the entire system, and I've been quite happy with it. It was always meant to be a "wait and see where the TV technology goes" temporary solution, and it has performed more than well for the expectations.

Stereo sound has been my hobby much longer than surround-sound AV home theater, so the stereo equipment in my living room is a level above the basement, bad pun intended. It consists of a Music Hall mmf-5 turntable with Goldring 1012 cartridge, Marantz CDR510 CD player/recorder, Harman Kardon HK-3480 2-channel receiver, and RBH 661-SE speakers. I spent about $1,350 on all of that, which I believe is quite a success. The room is essentially L-shaped 22x18 with a quadrant cut out, but also half-open to the rest of the house (kitchen, entryway, stairs) and with an awkward column in the middle. Still, the sound is great on the entire sofa I use as the main listening spot, at least when the speakers are where I want them. (Alas, most of the time, they are too close to the walls, for the safety of our younger son as well as the speakers' own. Even so, the sound is more than decent.)

My plan used to be to eventually collect enough RBH Signature series speakers for a surround system, get a decent receiver or perhaps Emotiva separates, and whatever flat-screen TV is good bang for the buck at that time, and merge the audio and HT systems into one. However, the rec room seems too small for those speakers (probably not acoustically, but physically - there would be no place for the surrounds of that size), and in the living room, the speakers in any acoustically acceptable position would be terribly in the way and potentially exposed to running boys.

I came to realize that compromises would be necessary and started looking at on-wall speakers. (In-wall is not an option because the wall where LCR speakers would go doesn't have enough depth. About 1-1.5" behind the drywall is a cinder-block firewall between our townhouse and the next one.) I was lucky (I hope) to find EMP online store selling RBH WM-30 and WM-24 speakers (presumably being discontinued) for $119 a piece. I had no opportunity to listen to them, but my experience with the SE series is excellent, I saw that WM's use similar drivers (aluminum-cone woofers and soft-dome tweeters) and I read the Audioholics review of the M-series which declared them excellent values at four times the current price. What could I conclude other than "Buy now!"? So now, while waiting for the speakers to arrive, I am trying to plan the rest of the changes.

I want a decent receiver to drive them, equally competent for music and for movies. But I can live with some interim solution for a while - either my old Panasonic, or just using 2 channels - until I find just what I need for a good price. These days I hardly ever get to listen to anything at high volume; if I have to wait for a year to buy the receiver, I may not notice too much. (And a similar I-can-wait argument applies to the TV - I see some nice deals on Panasonic and Samsung plasmas, but I am not sure I am ready to buy yet.)

This should, hopefully, answer all likely questions about my setup. As for the budget, well, you can see by my other purchases - ideally, I'd like to buy a $1,000+ receiver for $500 or less. :D
 
C

corey

Senior Audioholic
Gimli, the password "friend" worked back around the ending of the third age, have your tried that for your old account?

I think you've found some good receiver deals, and you really only need a center channel to match your RBH 661 SE's. I'm not clear from your posts what you plan to do with the WM 30/24 speaker(s) you ordered. They should be great surround speakers, but I'm not too sure about either of them serving as your center.
 
olddog

olddog

Audioholic
The 988/2808 tops all of your choices and gives you multi room abilities. The price is good and if you don't mind a demo you might even do better.
 
G

Gimli

Audiophyte
Gimli, the password "friend" worked back around the ending of the third age, have your tried that for your old account?

I think you've found some good receiver deals, and you really only need a center channel to match your RBH 661 SE's. I'm not clear from your posts what you plan to do with the WM 30/24 speaker(s) you ordered. They should be great surround speakers, but I'm not too sure about either of them serving as your center.
Yes, but how do you say "friend" in, harrumph, Elvish? ;)

It's going to be all on-wall speakers, and 661's are going to appear on Audiogon some time in the near future. (Don't try to talk me out of that. I have no doubt that the SE series, properly placed, are better speakers. I'll remember that when the current 3-year-old goes off to college.)
 
G

Gimli

Audiophyte
Thanks to all for the recommendations. I am not surprised that Denon 988 is the best of the 3 - after all, it is the most expensive, by MSRP or by current street price - but I have to figure out if the extra features are worth the money to me.

Is a receiver like 988 possibly an overkill with on-wall speakers? (My uneducated guess is not, considering that, some time ago, those speakers would have cost well over $2,000 for the set of 5.) Or, does it have features, compared to the other two, that would compensate well for compromises made in speaker placement? (I am not a fan of heavy signal processing, but if it works well, I can change my mind.)

I'll probably have more questions after studying the features a little more. (While Yamaha 861 is still on Yamaha's web site, Denon only has the current models, so the best I can find is the list of features on Amazon, which is not so easy to compare side by side.)
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Given what has ben said thus far and what your needs are....the 988 is going to be your best bet and the price of $540 is about on par for what you are looking for---and that is an excellent deal IMHO....
 
G

Gimli

Audiophyte
Thanks all for the recommendations and links. I was going to ask more questions about the differences between the two Denons, but the 888 is no longer available for the price in OP. That made the choice easier, and I have just ordered the Denon 988.
 

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