Large rear speakers

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'>I`ve allways had this enquiry. The sound sent to the rear speakers, are as full range and powered as the front ones?

Will there be a noticed difference between using large (say floor standing) over small (bookshelf/small bookshelf) speakers?

And about the power, all receivers send the same power to rear channel as it do to front ones?

Thanks for the info!</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>While the rear speakers are indeed full range in Dolby Digital and DTS flavored soundtracks, your receiver's bass management should take care of sending low frequency materials to the subwoofer or mains, thus the reason so many people use bookshelves or dedicated bookshelf-type speakers for surrounds.</font>

 

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'>Well actually my Yamaha receiver does let me configure my setup as Large/Small/None for rear, front and center speakers.

So if I had 2 pairs of floorstanding speakers I would setup them all 4 as Large, so all of them share or reproduce bass along with the SUB...

But if there are bookshelf rear speakers, then they would be configured as Small ones... so I believe maybe, with 4 floorstandings there wouldn`t be a need for a sub since all channels deliver full range sound (ok maybe not very low frequencies) but surely there wouldn`t be a lack of bass for sure either.

That would be nice to experiment huh? &nbsp;

</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Since my rear surrounds are bookshelf type, I have added a sub and set the rears speakers as LARGE on my DSP-AZ1. Doing this gave me much better envelope than my previous setup of diverting the rear bass to the fron subs.</font>

 

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'>Did you check if after setting the rear bookshelf speakers to large, they did not distort at high volume?

Perhaps if the receiver is setup that a sub is connected, say with a cut off at 90hz, all frequencies above that are delivered to the front and rear speakers, in which case, even the smallest bookshelf rear speaker can handle without to much of a problem...

Or are the sub 90hz frequencies sent to them too? &nbsp;

</font>

 

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'>Ok, I did a little experiment connecting my front large speakers (floorstanding) to the rear channels and fired up some 5.1 DD movies to check how much of sound came out from them...

Let me say that its completely useless to spend a lot of money on rear speakers... there are near zero bass coming out of them but most high and some medium frequencies.

So my question is answered. Go for a bookshelf all the way for this kind of speakers, just make sure they reproduce medium and high frequencies well and dont go for medium to high inches woofers since its useless, even less floorstanding speakers.

Hope this helps someone!</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Yamahalover,

Why would you do this?

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since my rear surrounds are bookshelf type, I have added a sub and set the rears speakers as LARGE on my DSP-AZ1.</td></tr></table>

The point of setting your rears to small is so that bass frequencies will be directed to the LFE channel (subwoofer). Why would you add a subwoofer and then set the rears to large? Assuming the driver for doing this is as you stated because your rears are bookshelf type.</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Ultra Nexus,

I think what Clint meant to say is that the rear channels (not speakers) support the full frequency range in DD and DTS.

However many DVDs are authored with the low frequencies from all channels already mixed into the LFE channel. So you would need to try a few different DVDs with your experiment.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>If I'm not mistaken, Yamahaluver has his full range (set to LARGE) rear channels routing through the subwoofer, which also acts as a crossover for his bookshelf speakers.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

Ultra Nexus : Ok, I did a little experiment connecting my front large speakers (floorstanding) to the rear channels and fired up some 5.1 DD movies to check how much of sound came out from them...

Let me say that its completely useless to spend a lot of money on rear speakers...

&quot;Ok, I did a little experiment connecting my front large speakers (floorstanding) to the rear channels and fired up some 5.1 DD movies to check how much of sound came out from them...

Let me say that its completely useless to spend a lot of money on rear speakers...&quot;

Quick question, when you did this experiment, did you set the rear channels to large?  Also, I hear, though I have not verified myself, that &quot;The Hunt for Red October&quot; has boatloads of bass in the rear channels.  You may want to use that movie in your next experiment.

I too have subs on my rear channels.  But, since my preamp is set up as:

front: large
center: none
rear: large
sub: none

I have the LFE routed to front and back, thus I can't tell if all the sub activity on the rear channels is due to rear channel signal or LFE signal.  If you want, I could set my preamp to think there is a sub on the LFE and then find out how active those subs in the rear are.</font>

 

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

Guest : Quick question, when you did this experiment, did you set the rear channels to large?

Yes I did.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

Guest : Also, I hear, though I have not verified myself, that &quot;The Hunt for Red October&quot; has boatloads of bass in the rear channels. &nbsp;You may want to use that movie in your next experiment.?

I only tried with Resident Evil and Dreamcatcher, but I`ll sure try that one when I get it downloaded

</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Since I use a sub for the rear and set my rears to LARGE, the sub gives my receiver's amp section a big break by taking up power robbing low frequencies, it also lets the bookshelf do what they do best, extended mids and highs with better dynamics and no distortion.

Many studios are now breaking the norm and putting heavy bass in the rears, Gangs of NY was one prime example where you can hear the gunshots and cannon shots coming from the rear. Since I have tried diverting the rear bass component to the LFE, I find the LARGE rear setting with a sub to be a much better move.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

Ultra Nexus : <font color='#000000'>I only tried with Resident Evil and Dreamcatcher, but I`ll sure try that one when I get it downloaded

</font>

<font color='#000080'>Are you testing with DVDs or MPEG-4/DivX quality rips? Many of the online &quot;venues&quot; don't properly rip and include the AC3 track.

Unless you are burning disc images of 4+GB DVDs, maybe you'll want to use an actual DVD during your testing.

I can't stand the online stuff - mostly crap compression once you blow it up, or not worth the time to download and burn.</font>

 

[Ultra Nexus]

<font color='#000000'>2x700Mb DivX/XviD with AC3 5.1 DD DVD Rips... The best quality rips available to download...

SVCD/VCD or DivX with 2 channel AC3 or stereo are automaticaly discarted.

I`ll surely repeat the experiment once I get a nice DVD player.

BTW: I`m downloading &quot;The Haunting&quot; and &quot;Event Horizon&quot; too with AC3 5.1 DD for further experiments.</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Yama,

Just to make sure, are you talking rears as surrounds or backs? You set them to full range, send the signal at speaker level to the sub, use the sub to crossover and forward the mids/highs to the bookshelf speakers?

Are you running more than one sub? I think you have alluded to that in the past. I wonder if there is a way for you to post a diagram of your setup, it sounds interesting.</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

PaulF : <font color='#000000'>Yama,

Just to make sure, are you talking rears as surrounds or backs? You set them to full range, send the signal at speaker level to the sub, use the sub to crossover and forward the mids/highs to the bookshelf speakers?

Are you running more than one sub? I think you have alluded to that in the past. I wonder if there is a way for you to post a diagram of your setup, it sounds interesting.</font>

<font color='#0000FF'>Paul F.,

I am currently using three subs, two Yamaha YST-SW800 in front and one Yamaha YST-SW320 in the rear, the fronts are connected to the line out as the DSP-AZ1 features a pair of sub line out, the rear sub is connected speaker line level and the bookshelf rears are crossed over from the sub at 80Hz.

The two front subs are behind the main towers and the rear is exactly in the center between the rear surrounds, I am not using the rear center.

Recently when Gene auditioned the Yamaha recievers, the setup was almost the same where they incorporated a rear sub.</font>

 

[spiritwalker]

Bringing this old thread alive again. I´d like to know your opinion about using floorstanders as surround speakers when it comes to SACD/DVD-A listening. Providing You have proper amplification/power to handle 4 floorstanders, would this improve the sound. How do the signals work with multichannel music using 5.1?

 

[Yamahaluver]

Bringing this old thread alive again. I´d like to know your opinion about using floorstanders as surround speakers when it comes to SACD/DVD-A listening. Providing You have proper amplification/power to handle 4 floorstanders, would this improve the sound. How do the signals work with multichannel music using 5.1?

Floor standers for rear is very good idea provided you can tune the acoustics of your room so as not to obstruct the speakers in the rear have a clear path. This way a bookshelf with a sub is much easier to position and integrate.

 

[Audioholics]

Using 5 equal floorstanding speakers is ideal for DVD-Audio/SACD playback as the rear channels are sent much more consistent full-range content.

A note on full-size rears for home theater use: Most floorstanding speakers do not produce very powerful low frequency below 30Hz, so a subwoofer will give you that extra extension (with power). There are so many factors, however, that it's hard to really place a "guiding rule" on the topic.

 

[spiritwalker]

My intention is to use 4 Canton Ergo RC-L.- They go as low as 18 Hz according to specifications. Would a subwoofer still be useful if you use x-over freq. directing tones below 40 hz to the sub.

Another question. If I go for Denon 3805 and using 4 RC-L speakers, is an external power-amp necessary? Let´s say for the front pair.