Laid-back, Bright... What does it mean to you?

[fredk]

What these terms mean to me seems to be different than what it means to some others here. I am curious to know what you mean when using some of these terms to describe the sound of a particular set of speakers.

Here are some terms and what they mean to me.

Neutral
Exactly that. Neither adding nor subtracting to the sound over the audible spectrum of the speaker. No need to use other words to describe it.

Forward
An over-emphasis of sound in some portion of the spectrum. If one were to play a series of tones at xxdb across the spectrum, the area where the speaker is forward would output greater than xxdb. 'forward of neutral'

Also implies an over emphasis of detail.

Laid-back
An under-emphasis of sound in some prtion of the spectum. If one were to play a series of tones at xxdb across the spectrum, the area where the speaker is laid-back would output less than than xxdb. 'recessed from neutral'

Also implies a less detaled sound.

Bright
Same as forward but applied to the higher frequencies.

So, what do they mean to you?

Fred

 

[Sheep]

I believe forward occurs in the vocal/midrange. You've left out a fair bit of terms as well. This is what I was given in school to describe different frequencies.

31Hz: Rumble, Chest.
63Hz: Bottom.
125Hz: Boom, Thump, Warmth.
250Hz: Fullness, Mud
500Hz: Honk.
1000Hz: Whack
2000Hz: Crunch
4000Hz: Edge
8000Hz: Sibiliance, Definition, Ouch.
16000hz: Air

I don't agree with all of these, but some are accurate. Sibilance can live as low as 1000Hz IMO. Laid-back usually means there is a dip around 1-4KHz, the the most sensitive part of the hearing spectrum for humans.

SheepStar

 

[3db]

I believe forward occurs in the vocal/midrange. You've left out a fair bit of terms as well. This is what I was given in school to describe different frequencies.

31Hz: Rumble, Chest.
63Hz: Bottom.
125Hz: Boom, Thump, Warmth.
250Hz: Fullness, Mud
500Hz: Honk.
1000Hz: Whack
2000Hz: Crunch
4000Hz: Edge
8000Hz: Sibiliance, Definition, Ouch.
16000hz: Air

I don't agree with all of these, but some are accurate. Sibilance can live as low as 1000Hz IMO. Laid-back usually means there is a dip around 1-4KHz, the the most sensitive part of the hearing spectrum for humans.

SheepStar

To me laid back means that the treble isn't as pronounced or emphasized, above 4KHz

 

[fmw]

I think it would be more useful simply to publish a frequency response graph. The words are way, way, way too subjective.

 

[j_garcia]

Speakers are subjective though, as each term does tend to mean something a little different to each person. To me bright is annoying and fatiguing, but to some they prefer this type of sound and it isn't considered bright by them. Neutral means no bloated bass / midbass, clear midrange and highs that are crisp without being offensive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To me, Neutral means a flat frequency repsonse 20Hz-20kHz +/-2dB.

Bright or Forward means that the average SPL from 1kHz-20kHz is > +2dB.

Warm or Laidback means that the average SPL from 1kHz-20kHz is < -2dB.

Boomy means that the average SPL from 20Hz-100Hz is > +3dB.

 

[Sheep]

To me laid back means that the treble isn't as pronounced or emphasized, above 4KHz

To you. When you understand how emphasized the 1-4KHz range is, you may reconsider that.

SheepStar

 

[3db]

To you. When you understand how emphasized the 1-4KHz range is, you may reconsider that.

SheepStar

I have a graphic equalizer which I'll play with to see the effects of over 4K and between 1 to 4K .

 

[j_garcia]

FR doesn't tell you the whole picture. I have heard any number of speakers with similar measurements +/-3dB over similar ranges and those speakers don't sound anything alike. My speakers are +/-1.5dB over their measured range and they sound warm yet rich, particularly in the midrange.

Of course, room will have an influence as well.

 

[rnatalli]

When using these terms to describe speakers' sound, I always try to compare them to other speakers as it's all relative anyways.

 

[no. 5]

I think it would be more useful simply to publish a frequency response graph. The words are way, way, way too subjective.

You betcha a graph would be more useful! But subjective descriptions have their place, and the definitions of some are almost universal (like 'bright').

 

[fredk]

OK, here are the only online 'defenitions' I could find. I found only two sources in an hour of searching. They are almost, word for word, the same so I think they come from the same author.

It is interesting that you can find pages and pages of descriptions using these terms, but not much stating what they are supposed to mean

One source is:
www.soundvideo.com/value_glossary.htm

forward, forwardness:
A quality of reproduction which seems to place sound sources closer than they were recorded. Usually the result of a humped midrange, plus a narrow horizontal dispersion pattern from the loudspeaker. See "Row-A sound." Compare "laid-back."

Laid-back:
Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. The opposite of "Forward."

And my favourite:

bright, brilliant:
The most often misused terms in audio, these describe the degree to which reproduced sound has a hard, crisp edge to it. Brightness relates to the energy content in the 4kHz-8kHz band. It is not related to output in the extreme-high-frequency range. All live sound has brightness; it is a problem only when it is excessive.

I have seen another reference somewhere that described bright similarly. I don't think anybody uses the word this way.

Fred

 

[mazersteven]

Laid-back:
Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. The opposite of "Forward."

A lot different then your definition--""Laid back" usually means less detailed"

 

[fredk]

FMW. I agree that the terms used are too subjective, particularly since few (at least from my searching) take the time to define their meaning.

Like j_garcia, I would like to see more charts along with descriptions.

I would also like to see some attempt to explain how what we see in the charts relates to what we are hearing. I have found some of that, but not much.

Sheep. Yup, there are lots more definitions, I just decided to post on these for starters.

boomy
Characterized by pronounced exaggeration of the midbass and, often, dominance of a narrow range of bass frequencies. ("One-note bass.")

Dark
A warm, mellow, excessively rich quality in reproduced sound. The audible effect of a frequency response that is clockwise-tilted across the entire range, so that output diminishes with increasing frequency. The opposite of "light."

Warm
The same as Dark, but less tilted.

Now thats quite different than what you describe as warm Sheep. I thought of warm being like forward, but less pronounced.

Fred

 

[fredk]

FR doesn't tell you the whole picture. I have heard any number of speakers with similar measurements +/-3dB over similar ranges and those speakers don't sound anything alike.

I ran into the same thing comparing two of Axioms speakers. At the time I was very surprised. I have been told that it has to do with harmonics.

Fred

 

[Sheep]

Or Bias... Never forget that bias.

SheepStar

 

[Ron Temple]

FR doesn't tell you the whole picture. I have heard any number of speakers with similar measurements +/-3dB over similar ranges and those speakers don't sound anything alike. My speakers are +/-1.5dB over their measured range and they sound warm yet rich, particularly in the midrange.

Of course, room will have an influence as well.

+ 1...your speakers are very linear, with exceptional midbass and midrange with wonderful non fatigueing tweets. No lack of detail and certainly no roll off at the top, but I'd call them warm/neutral because they are so damn creamy/fruity.

 

[Sheep]

+ 1...your speakers are very linear, with exceptional midbass and midrange with wonderful non fatigueing tweets. No lack of detail and certainly no roll off at the top, but I'd call them warm/neutral because they are so damn creamy/fruity.

Stop posting in the Kitchen. And if your room is untreated, and your system is un-EQ'd, they're not flat.

SheepStar

 

[mazersteven]

they're not flat.

SheepStar

 

[corey]

+ 1...your speakers are very linear, with exceptional midbass and midrange with wonderful non fatigueing tweets. No lack of detail and certainly no roll off at the top, but I'd call them warm/neutral because they are so damn creamy/fruity.

Perhaps the proper cables & power cords could also add a chocolaty bottom.