Krell - What a Joke

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is what it says in the $30,000 Krell Evolution 707 Pre-pro Manual:

Two people are needed to remove an Evolution 707 from its shipping box safely and easily.
The Evolution 707 weighs 49 lbs (22 kg).

My Denon receiver weights 63 lbs.

And 2 people are needed to remove a girly 49 lbs Krell?

What a joke!

 

[bandphan]

This is what it says in the $30,000 Krell Evolution 707 Pre-pro Manual:

Two people are needed to remove an Evolution 707 from its shipping box safely and easily.
The Evolution 707 weighs 49 lbs (22 kg).

My Denon receiver weights 63 lbs.

And 2 people are needed to remove a girly 49 lbs Krell?

What a joke!

for an extra charge they will send help for removal

So have you concluded if it is fully balanced yet and you have amps in yours..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So have you concluded if it is fully balanced yet

**hee**hee

I have been searching to find any evidence of this, but I have not been able to find any.

I still believe that the Denon AVP-A1 is the only pre-pro that is fully balanced.

Therefore, I must have the Denon AVP-A1.

 

[bandphan]

According to krell it is end to end. I haven't seen a 3rd party review confirm this though

You can call and speak to Patrick Bresnahan@ 203-298-4020 and clarify.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to krell it is end to end. I haven't seen a 3rd party review confirm this though

You can call and speak to Patrick Bresnahan@ 203-298-4020 and clarify.

Did Krell mention this on their website?

 

[bandphan]

Did Krell mention this on their website?

My rep was my source, but their wording on the WS is vague.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My rep was my source, but their wording on the WS is vague.

I see.

But you know what they say, "Word is Cheap".

They need to put something as EXCLUSIVE as a fully balanced pre-pro (end-to-end) in Writing and be Proud of it.

But then again, I guess people who buy $30K pre-pros usually don't care and probably don't know what that means.

 

[chris357]

so are you thinking of buying one of these? and if you dont mind please explained what you are refering to as fully balanced? are you talking about the hdmi?

 

[bandphan]

so are you thinking of buying one of these? and if you dont mind please explained what you are refering to as fully balanced? are you talking about the hdmi?

Most professional audio products (recording, public address, etc.) provide differential balanced inputs and outputs, typically via XLR or TRS connectors. However, in most cases, a differential balanced input signal is internally converted to a single-ended signal via transformer or electronic amplifier. After internal processing, the single-ended signal is converted back to a differential balanced signal and fed to an output. A small number of professional audio products have been designed as an entirely differential balanced signal path from input to output; the audio signal never unbalances. This design is achieved by providing identical (mirrored) internal signal paths for both pin 2 and pin 3 signals (AKA "hot" and "cold" audio signals). In critical applications, a 100% differential balanced circuit design can offer better signal integrity by avoiding the extra amplifier stages or transformers required for front-end unbalancing and back-end rebalancing. Fully balanced internal circuitry has been promoted as yielding 3dB better dynamic range.[3][/

QUOTE]

a general idea

 

[chris357]

ok, so most balanced input/outputs are not 100% balanced.. so the evo eludes to this but does not put it in writing? while the less than a 3rd th eprice denon actually does it?

is a 100% balanced that rare to find?

 

[bandphan]

From what Ive been told the evo is fully balanced.

 

[chris357]

ok, cool all is still right with the world will it say in specs if something is or is not fully balanced?

 

[bandphan]

ok, cool all is still right with the world will it say in specs if something is or is not fully balanced?

Most is not. In the HT world one confirmed. In the stereo world there are a few. The literature should state fully balanced. All the gear on the market with balanced inputs is likley not fully balanced.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ok, so most balanced input/outputs are not 100% balanced.. so the evo eludes to this but does not put it in writing? while the less than a 3rd th eprice denon actually does it?

is a 100% balanced that rare to find?

Back in 2008 when Denon released the AVP-A1HD, Denon claimed in Writing that it was the First & Only Pre-pro in the world that is fully 100% balanced.

So we don't know as of TODAY what the status is.

If the Evolution 707 is 100% balanced, Krell sure did NOT mention this in Writing. It could be pure balanced, but it sure would be nice to see it in black and white, like Denon.

What I look for to establish this fact is some kind of mentioning of either "fully balanced" or "dual-differential balanced stage/boards" or "double-sided circuit boards". There may be other "signs".

The very awesome Anthem D2v pre-pro is not 100% fully balanced. Anthem admits this and says that a 100% pure balanced pre-pro is not necessary and only significantly increases cost.

I can see why it would increase cost since the circuit boards have to be DOUBLED from front to back 100%.

For pre-pros, it is extremely rare.

For amps, it's not as RARE. A lot of high-end amps are fully balanced. Emotiva amps are not fully balanced, except for maybe their flagship 500W monoblock.

 

[chris357]

honestly, just because a company claims something in writing doesnt make it true on either side..

i used to sell Infinti's (7 years) and back in april of 01 they had the Q45 with a rear view camera.. they never bragged about any of th ecool stuff the car had.. back in 04 or so when lexus came out with 2nd or 3rd gen RX350 they claimed first ever and only with a rear camera.. by this time infiniti had it on like 3 models..

anyway sorry to get on a tangent.. maybe krell just expects you to know they dont F around



I dont know i wont ever be able to afford an evo I really should not have afforded the krell stuff I have but damn I just had to have it

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

so are you thinking of buying one of these? and if you dont mind please explained what you are refering to as fully balanced? are you talking about the hdmi?

Yes, I'm planning on buying the Denon AVP-A1HDCI because it is the ONLY one that is officially confirmed in black & white to be 100% pure balanced.

BTW, my ATI amps are also confirmed to be 100% pure balanced.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

honestly, just because a company claims something in writing doesnt make it true on either side..

i used to sell Infinti's (7 years) and back in april of 01 they had the Q45 with a rear view camera.. they never bragged about any of th ecool stuff the car had.. back in 04 or so when lexus came out with 2nd or 3rd gen RX350 they claimed first ever and only with a rear camera.. by this time infiniti had it on like 3 models..

anyway sorry to get on a tangent.. maybe krell just expects you to know they dont F around



I dont know i wont ever be able to afford an evo I really should not have afforded the krell stuff I have but damn I just had to have it

I don't think a big company like Denon can make such claims and not expect people like Audioholic's Gene not to open up the hood and check it out.

 

[chris357]

yeah t hats a good point.. I wish I woudl have learned about this website about $5000 dollars ago not that I dont love my krell stuff but I might have done things a little different. I guess it seems there are people who just take the word of others and people who dig and make sure.. thats what I liek about this forum and website

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

yeah t hats a good point.. I wish I woudl have learned about this website about $5000 dollars ago not that I dont love my krell stuff but I might have done things a little different. I guess it seems there are people who just take the word of others and people who dig and make sure.. thats what I liek about this forum and website

I think 99% of all people would be very happy to own a Krell regardless of whether it is 100% fully balanced or not.

I do prefer the SILVER color of the Krell, and I wish that Denon would offer a silver color on the AVP-A1 in the USA (they only offer a silver color in Europe).

But just tell me you did not need TWO people to lift your pre-pro out of the box!!!

I placed my > 100 lbs ATI amp on the rack all by myself without any problems so I just had to ROLL MY EYES like this when I read in the Krell manual that you need TWO people to lift a 49 lbs pre-pro.

 

[chadburger]

Must be a great life to take issue with a suggestion a friend helps lift an expensive item out of its box.................charmed life for sure.