Klipsch RB-51 Bookshelf Speakers Video Review

[Gustavo]

"The public critiques... not so helpful."

Why?

For being public?

 

[zieglj01]

This is an open forum - right?

 

[dkane360]

Wow, he's not trying to take away your free speech, cut him some slack. He would just rather you message him privately about a matter regarding the site instead of posting it on here. Don't try and make a huge deal out of something so minuscule.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

"The public critiques... not so helpful."

Why?

For being public?

I think that Clint was saying that if people are going to gripe, they're more likely to do it publicly, whereas if they are going to provide constructive criticism, they are more likely to do it in private.

I would say that the constructiveness of any criticism can not be determined in a vacuum, however, will agree that the internet tends to be the place where nonconstructive criticism is more likely to be supported by the masses. Still, I have hope for the internet, and frankly and unfortunately, don't think there remains a viable alternative as a means of public discourse.

 

[GranteedEV]

I think the biggest issue is that the URL for all the video previews and first looks always has the word `review in it.

 

[InTheIndustry]

I think the biggest issue is that the URL for all the video previews and first looks always has the word `review in it.

Correct. Add to that the fact that these "First Looks" & "Previews" are listed in the professional review section and it's quite confusing.... until you realize that the Audioholics website hasn't actually reviewed a whole lot of anything for quite some time. There are a lot of banner adds, though.

I often wonder what happened to the in depth reviews that used to pop up almost weekly. Why is it that seemingly only internet direct companies get their products reviewed? I understand that in selling on the internet Emotiva, for example, would jump at the chance to have their products reviewed in cyberspace. Heck, it's where their shoppers linger and their target demographic. But what's up with the brick & mortar brands being all but erased from Audioholics reviews?

Heck, the last flat panel television REVIEW was almost 2 years ago in Dec. 2009. However, all of the individual previews of the different model numbers and series does amount to a ton of "content" and key word articles for google searches. File all of those under a "Review" section and I bet any time someone types in a model number with the word "review" into google this site pops up. Which is probably the purpose of it all. But what good is a "preview" without a follow up review? What exactly is the preview for accept to drive traffic to the site through keyword search?

I enjoy reading the forum, but its dwindled down to only a handful of consistent users and a far cry from the community it had grown into only a few years ago. The content of the site is almost strictly geared towards ad-engine marketing instead of actual real & original content.

This site, Gene & Clint in particular, had always strived to be different than that. They're super smart guys (I've met them briefly at CEDIA 5 years ago) and their opinions on gear is a lot different than what most people would get out of a typical magazine or forum.

An open letter to Gene/Clint: I go through a LOT of gear and design a fair amount of systems using a wide range of products. While I have no use for the sophisticated testing equipment that AH uses, what I do have is practical application use which, IMO, is just as valuable or maybe even more so. I would be happy to write articles, include pics, and even add "war-room" stories that I think a lot of readers might enjoy. I would gladly do it for free as long as I could attach my company name to it at the bottom in a short blurb sig. Perhaps it would help educate consumers on real world equipment design & usage or at least provide fun reads? PM me if you'd like!

 

[GranteedEV]

Why is it that seemingly only internet direct companies get their products reviewed?

It's the same reason internet direct companies tend to not get reviewed in print mags.

On the grand scale, they're better bang for buck, and B&M companies don't want mediocre value being associated with their products. When you factor in all the overheads and markups brick and mortar products go through, you can certainly compete with other B&M companies, but not companies that aren`t paying those overheads.

Companies like Aperion, EMP, Salk, Axiom etc may feel confident in their product against things in the same budget price ranges of sub-2000, but as soon as you get to Hi Fi companies like Totem, Paradigm, DefTech etc, you have to add a certain amount in order to make a direct comparision. These companies prefer to compete with each other because they know that for value, ID companeis likely have them beat.

I`m not saying it`s a be-all-end-all rule, but it`s safe to assume that this is why those companies don`t send their products to Audioholics. I`m sure a company like Klipsch feels comfortable selling its boom and sizzle speakers to a person who doesn`t know much about a live performance that`s used as a reference. In last year`s Budget Floorstander shootout, we saw a clear divide between the trained listeners and the non-trained listeners... and we also saw the JBL speaker lose out rather unanimously even if it`s a relatively nice product for its price in terms of B&M brands.

I don`t think B&M companies want AH to review their products. It`s not like AH is going around into factories stealing speakers to review them like the Grinch.

In fact one of the more recent speaker reviews I read on here was this one, which AFAIK is a B&M brand:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/pinnacle-bd-1000

 

[gene]

Correct. Add to that the fact that these "First Looks" & "Previews" are listed in the professional review section and it's quite confusing.... until you realize that the Audioholics website hasn't actually reviewed a whole lot of anything for quite some time. There are a lot of banner adds, though.

I often wonder what happened to the in depth reviews that used to pop up almost weekly. Why is it that seemingly only internet direct companies get their products reviewed? I understand that in selling on the internet Emotiva, for example, would jump at the chance to have their products reviewed in cyberspace. Heck, it's where their shoppers linger and their target demographic. But what's up with the brick & mortar brands being all but erased from Audioholics reviews?

Heck, the last flat panel television REVIEW was almost 2 years ago in Dec. 2009. However, all of the individual previews of the different model numbers and series does amount to a ton of "content" and key word articles for google searches. File all of those under a "Review" section and I bet any time someone types in a model number with the word "review" into google this site pops up. Which is probably the purpose of it all. But what good is a "preview" without a follow up review? What exactly is the preview for accept to drive traffic to the site through keyword search?

I enjoy reading the forum, but its dwindled down to only a handful of consistent users and a far cry from the community it had grown into only a few years ago. The content of the site is almost strictly geared towards ad-engine marketing instead of actual real & original content.

This site, Gene & Clint in particular, had always strived to be different than that. They're super smart guys (I've met them briefly at CEDIA 5 years ago) and their opinions on gear is a lot different than what most people would get out of a typical magazine or forum.

An open letter to Gene/Clint: I go through a LOT of gear and design a fair amount of systems using a wide range of products. While I have no use for the sophisticated testing equipment that AH uses, what I do have is practical application use which, IMO, is just as valuable or maybe even more so. I would be happy to write articles, include pics, and even add "war-room" stories that I think a lot of readers might enjoy. I would gladly do it for free as long as I could attach my company name to it at the bottom in a short blurb sig. Perhaps it would help educate consumers on real world equipment design & usage or at least provide fun reads? PM me if you'd like!

The frequency of our reviews haven't changed much over the last year or two. We are just being smarter offering more content for better SEO to compete with everyone else. Our reviews are NOT typical in this industry and it was killing us not updating the site daily b/c we were spending too much time writing 5-10k word reviews. We are still posting 3-4 new reviews a month, 1-2 in depth tech articles / mo, plus 2-3 news articles / day. Not too shabby if you ask me.

As for display reviews, I instructed Clint a year ago to stop doing this. By the time we get a TV in hand and reviewed, its replaced by a new model 2 months later. Instead Clint is more focused on Projector and Blu-ray player reviews. He has done a great job writing projector reviews, yet so few people on the forum comment on them. It's obvious our readers prefer reading more speaker / receiver reviews instead.

The fact you are seeing more banner ads is a good thing. It means our ad agency is doing their job despite the economic disarray we are currently recovering from. The more adspace that is sold, the better I can hire qualified reviewers to add more content.

The reason we prefer private criticism / comments is to keep these threads on topic. So far very little discourse of this thread actually deals with the product in question. I ask that everyone please get this thread back on topic but feel free to PM either myself or Clint to discuss these issues further.

 

[InTheIndustry]

It's the same reason internet direct companies tend to not get reviewed in print mags.

On the grand scale, they're better bang for buck, and B&M companies don't want mediocre value being associated with their products. When you factor in all the overheads and markups brick and mortar products go through, you can certainly compete with other B&M companies, but not companies that aren`t paying those overheads.

Companies like Aperion, EMP, Salk, Axiom etc may feel confident in their product against things in the same budget price ranges of sub-2000, but as soon as you get to Hi Fi companies like Totem, Paradigm, DefTech etc, you have to add a certain amount in order to make a direct comparision. These companies prefer to compete with each other because they know that for value, ID companeis likely have them beat.

I`m not saying it`s a be-all-end-all rule, but it`s safe to assume that this is why those companies don`t send their products to Audioholics. I`m sure a company like Klipsch feels comfortable selling its boom and sizzle speakers to a person who doesn`t know much about a live performance that`s used as a reference. In last year`s Budget Floorstander shootout, we saw a clear divide between the trained listeners and the non-trained listeners... and we also saw the JBL speaker lose out rather unanimously even if it`s a relatively nice product for its price in terms of B&M brands.

I don't think B&M companies want AH to review their products. It`s not like AH is going around into factories stealing speakers to review them like the Grinch.

In fact one of the more recent speaker reviews I read on here was this one, which AFAIK is a B&M brand:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/pinnacle-bd-1000

Past Speaker Brand Reviewed by Audioholics.com That Are Primarily B&M

Triad
Jamo
RBH
THIEL
BG
PhaseTech
Atlantic Technology
Dynaudio

And that's just glancing through the bookshelf section. And no, I don't think AH went and pilfered any of these. lol! Manufacturers would send them these products to review.

Also, I don't know how many different markups you think B&M brands typically go through, or how much those markups are but I can tell you that it's not much different, and in some cases less, than any other product sold in a store.

And internet direct brands whole marketing shtick is their "value of buying direct from the factory". And a lot of people blindly by into that hook line and sinker. Tell me, what value do AV123 customers feel at this point in time? I think there's a perceived value as well as a real one in some cases and on some models. But, as you pointed out, it's certainly not an absolute.

Think about this for a moment.... You never really know who's on the other end of all of these posts claiming how "AMAZING" internet direct brand X or Y is. SVS was part of a huge scandal in that regard and on this site no less a few years ago (and lots of others, you can be sure). How do you think some of these companies build their name and reputation? Answer: Spreading their own gospel by any means necessary on hobbyist message boards and comment sites all over the web. Don't think for a second that these companies don't have people crawling all over the web/forums dropping "Look at BRAND-XYZ, they're awesome." posts any and everywhere. There are lots of Wizards behind lots of curtains, friend. Some very dirty pool is being played indeed.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Think about this for a moment.... You never really know who's on the other end of all of these posts claiming how "AMAZING" internet direct brand X or Y is. SVS was part of a huge scandal in that regard and on this site no less a few years ago (and lots of others, you can be sure).

For those looking for context: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29188&highlight=svs+banned

 

[gene]

For those looking for context: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ght=svs+banned

Guys lets not dwindle on the past. Mistakes were made on both ends and to be honest, I'd rather be friends with everyone if possible.

All of the people we had issues with at SVS are no longer employees there. Ed Mullen and Ron Stimpson are running a tight ship now and we are glad to be on good terms with them again.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Guys lets not dwindle on the past. Mistakes were made on both ends and to be honest, I'd rather be friends with everyone if possible.

All of the people we had issues with at SVS are no longer employees there. Ed Mullen and Ron Stimpson are running a tight ship now and we are glad to be on good terms with them again.

Good to hear. I myself had not heard of the past incident and had to do some pretty serious googling to find out what exactly had happened. Maybe an update or to/delete of the post is in order to avoid folks like me stumbling upon it without all the facts?