Keystone jacks ok for HDMI and optical audio?

[Eppie]

Hey gang. Long time audiophile but new to the forum. I will be installing a wall mount TV and I usually use keystone jacks for my computer and audio cable runs, but I haven't used them for video before. I only see female to female HDMI couplers for keystone jack installs ( https://www.primecables.ca/p-310550-cab-6852-hdmi-female-to-female-coupler-adapter-keystone-jack-white-primecables ). Any issues using 3 cables and 2 couplers for 4K over HDMI? (Wall plates behind the receiver and the TV.) Can you get HDMI punch down connectors and bulk cable or does HDMI cable need to be terminated at the factory? I've seen plenty of videos where they use wall plates with holes in them and feed pre-made cables through the holes, which only requires a single cable, but the wall backs onto a bed room so I prefer not to have any holes that could allow sound transmission into the abutting room.
While on the topic of wall plates, I also like to run the audio optical out from the TV to the receiver and see SC Keystone jacks for this purpose ( https://www.primecables.ca/p-317466-cab-2876-modular-sc-keystone-jack-white-monoprice ). Do these couple optical cables that are already terminated in an optical connector? FWIW, this will be a relatively short run with the TV mounted above the audio console.

 

[Eppie]

This was my very first post (above) when I joined a little over 4 years ago. No one ever replied. Finally found an appropriate answer from TLS Guy in this thread.

Long Run High Bandwidth HDMI Copper

I have an approximate 50-ft run and I'd like to use an HDMI solution capable of 48gbps to future proof. I would use active optical cable but here's the catch- The cable is going to move back and forth often because the TV is on the rails. I'll do a thread on the rail device I built when it's...

forums.audioholics.com

"HDMI transmission are super high frequency. You need to keep connections to the absolute minimum. This is because information "packets" can bounce back with cancellations and drop outs.

So going from A to B with the minimum of fuss is the way to go. In this regard optical fiber is king. "

 

[highfigh]

This was my very first post (above) when I joined a little over 4 years ago. No one ever replied. Finally found an appropriate answer from TLS Guy in this thread.

Long Run High Bandwidth HDMI Copper

I have an approximate 50-ft run and I'd like to use an HDMI solution capable of 48gbps to future proof. I would use active optical cable but here's the catch- The cable is going to move back and forth often because the TV is on the rails. I'll do a thread on the rail device I built when it's...

forums.audioholics.com

"HDMI transmission are super high frequency. You need to keep connections to the absolute minimum. This is because information "packets" can bounce back with cancellations and drop outs.

So going from A to B with the minimum of fuss is the way to go. In this regard optical fiber is king. "

Interesting- I don't think I saw the original post, either- it's the kind of topic where I like to try to help.

The thing about HDMI is, fewer connections is ALWAYS best, whether copper wire or fiber because it has to make additional connections if Keystones or any other connector is used and if you look at the connector, one keystone jack uses two connections in order to allow the signal to reach the end. If these jacks are used on both ends, they add four connection points to the signal path, there, four points of failure- where a single cable connects at two points (one at each end), this has a total of six connections.

You mentioned using an optical from the TV- IMO, TVs should be dumb and not a source- just a display. Obviously, the AV industry/manufacturers don't agree but if TVs were dumb and couldn't receive TV broadcasts, we would need TV tuners and we all kow those aren't as easy to find as they were. However, using ALL of the sources to send audio to an AVR would be the most organized way to handle the job, multiple sources outside of the AV cabinet means cocfusion, clutter, additional cabling and it's more difficult to control the system.

The distance issue has existed since the beginning of HDMI, which was originally intended to go 6', be connected once and never disturbed. Anyone who has worked with an AV systems should have said 'Yeah, right- let us know how that works out" immediately.

 

[Eppie]

Optical out on the TV was basically to keep things simple for my wife. She uses the upstairs TV and does not want to turn on the AVR every time, so the cable box and Roku are connected to the TV and she is content with the TV speakers. If we watch shows together, then I fire up the AVR. It's a 5.0 system so optical out is fine.

I was not familiar with brush plates back then. Brush plates make it easy to run cable through the wall and not need any additional connectors. The only wall connectors I installed were for the speakers.

My HT system has everything connected to the AVR. The X4800H has HDMI passthrough, so the TV can be used without the AVR, but I never do. eARC allows for the use of TV apps, but I get everything I need from the cable box and NVidia Shield. The free TV channels on the Samsung app are pretty much duplicated in Plex.

 

[highfigh]

Optical out on the TV was basically to keep things simple for my wife. She uses the upstairs TV and does not want to turn on the AVR every time, so the cable box and Roku are connected to the TV and she is content with the TV speakers. If we watch shows together, then I fire up the AVR. It's a 5.0 system so optical out is fine.

I was not familiar with brush plates back then. Brush plates make it easy to run cable through the wall and not need any additional connectors. The only wall connectors I installed were for the speakers.

My HT system has everything connected to the AVR. The X4800H has HDMI passthrough, so the TV can be used without the AVR, but I never do. eARC allows for the use of TV apps, but I get everything I need from the cable box and NVidia Shield. The free TV channels on the Samsung app are pretty duplicated in Plex.

Another way of coming out of the wall is called a 'nose plate'- some protrude, some are inverted, but they occupy space inside of a junction box and some local codes don't allow ANY wiring that's not in a box (Chicago is one of these). Speakers and other analog cabling isn't affected by terminations in a wall plate, but HDMI is one place where I would just make sure the cable reachess on both ends, with some extra length, for moving a cabinet or rack.

For 5.0/5.1, optical should be fine, ARC and eARC can definitely be a problem, especially over long distances. If local TV stations aren't a priority and streaming channels are, it's much easier to use a Roku/etc and connect it to a pass-through input port, so it will still feed the TV when the AVR is turned off. The husband of one of my customers decided that the TV in his office should replace the one in their family room, so its streaming/smart features could be used. Well, the cable length from the AVR to the TV is about 60' and, while I did install conduit in 2011 when the system was installed, Arc & eArc HDMI extenders would cost a minimum of $300 and those don't work at 4K. I called several manufacturers of HDMI cables & accessories- not a single one said that Arc/eARC are reliable over long distances, regardless of the cable being used, from any brand.

The Roku has been working very well and that's a good thing because my customer isn't a techy person. Her husband thinks he is, but, well.....

Isn't this fun?

 

[Eppie]

Well, lets face it. Home video was never intended to be sent over long distances except for those few using projectors. A friend of mine fronts a Tom Petty tribute band, along with other projects, and he's always been on the forefront of video projection for small acts. I'm surprised that he gets it to work as often as he does but I think it's only 1080, not the high bandwidth material.

 

[highfigh]

Well, lets face it. Home video was never intended to be sent over long distances except for those few using projectors. A friend of mine fronts a Tom Petty tribute band, along with other projects, and he's always been on the forefront of video projection for small acts. I'm surprised that he gets it to work as often as he does but I think it's only 1080, not the high bandwidth material.

1080 is easy, HDR 4K with all of the bells & whistles is possible, but it's often difficult and expensive. It's done in commercial/industrial applications, but for most resi users, it's just not gonna happen. The best case- send whatever resolution the source/AVR can to a display that can upconvert to higher res reliably.

I would modify the "Home video" comment to 'Digital Home video'- analog can be sent over ridiculous distances and it works very reliably. It's not high res, but when I worked for an AV company that installed/upgraded equipment in LDS facilities in 1997, we sent audio and video from satellite dishes hundreds of feet via modulators and audio distribution amps. This was then shown on projector screen and the picture quality was actually decent because it was a matter of matching the source res to the display res.

A local company is having a vendor showcase on the 1st- if I can, I may stop by to see what they're using since they install video walls at concert venues. Up close, it would be reasonable to ask "What do they plan to do with this?" because the 12" square video modules have rectangular LEDs that can't be less than 1/2" apart but from a distance, it looks good.

 

[Eppie]

I have seen instances in clubs where he used the analogue output of his laptop to connect to the local video projection system. I imagine that for most bars and clubs that's the cheapest and most reliable solution. You don't need 4K for the backdrop to a live performance, at least not for the size of screen that they use. Those LED sheets are interesting but you need a long enough production run to have spares available for maintenance. The older analogue stuff is still east to maintain, unless your projector is 30 feet up on the ceiling.