Just bought Denon AVR-2807

[skasol]

I have a question though, I have the Def techs BP7004's and a CLR2300 and some klipsch as my rears that I am going to exchange soon, my question is the following, I had a yamaha HTR-5590, and I upgraded to this one, my question is the following, with my Yamaha I didn't have to raise the volume anymore than -40 to get a good filling sound, with this denon after the auto set up in order for me to get sound so that I can hear vocals is all the way down to -10 and lower sometimes, I was wondering if this is natural? this is my first Denon, I do like the clarity of it though.

 

[ggunnell]

I'm not an Audyssey expert, but if you ran the setup with the microphone you may need to run it again. There are threads here and on AVS discussing the technique of getting good results with the Audyssey system.

 

[Nick250]

I have a question though, I have the Def techs BP7004's and a CLR2300 and some klipsch as my rears that I am going to exchange soon, my question is the following, I had a yamaha HTR-5590, and I upgraded to this one, my question is the following, with my Yamaha I didn't have to raise the volume anymore than -40 to get a good filling sound, with this denon after the auto set up in order for me to get sound so that I can hear vocals is all the way down to -10 and lower sometimes, I was wondering if this is natural? this is my first Denon, I do like the clarity of it though.

Do you have your main speakers as large or small? Audyssey will almost always set your mains to large which is wrong in most cases. Try setting all speakers to small and cross them over at 80Hz, then try your system using Audyssey and then without (called "no eq" or words that that effect). You have powered subs in the speakers, where do they get their signal from? That may change things some.

Nick

 

[skasol]

Do you have your main speakers as large or small? Audyssey will almost always set your mains to large which is wrong in most cases. Try setting all speakers to small and cross them over at 80Hz, then try your system using Audyssey and then without (called "no eq" or words that that effect). You have powered subs in the speakers, where do they get their signal from? That may change things some.

Nick

I thank you both for your quick response.
as far as my speakers, they are set to large, they are large, they are the BP7004 with a build in 10" sub, I am not an expert so I don't know how to cross them over at 80Hz, as far as the power subs, they are build into the speakers and they get the signal from the subwoofer input from the receiver, I have them hooked up with the subwoofer cable. any input it's welcome. thank you

 

[fredejo]

this may not help but i have denon 3805, i watch tv at -22 to -18 or so, sometimes as low as -10 but thats pretty rare (LOUD movies at -8).

 

[skasol]

thank you, I thought it was something that I was doing wrong with my denon, I am very pleased with the sound, I just wanted to make sure I didn't have a defective unit. thank you again, I adjusted the channel levels +8DB and that seems to help me, but I am not sure if I like it the way it is now. I may go back to the original setting, thank you again for your help.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You better check the temperature of the top of the Denon. If it's running hot, you need to set the towers to small. If your subwoofer in the towers is running off a separate subwoofer cable, you'll be fine as far as sound goes. You need to use your onscreen display on your Denon via your remote, and go to speaker setup. There, you can set all your speakers to small. You should absolutely set your Denon's crossover to 80Hz, and let the subwoofer in the towers handle everything below that Hz. It's all in the manual, and if I know Denon, you'll want to read that thing 5x to understand it. I wouldn't rely too heavily on the auto eq - they're easily affected by such little things as the refridgerator kicking on. You can easily set your speaker distance with a tape measure.

 

[Rob Babcock]

The number of the volume setting is completely arbitrary- it doesn't correspond to any actual acoustic value. I wouldn't worry at all about the setting provided you're not hearing distortions or running overly hot. Different brands have different interfaces, nothing to worry about. I'm on my 3rd Denon myself; FWIW I seldom run about -15, but that would vary from model to model and room to room.

 

[skasol]

You better check the temperature of the top of the Denon. If it's running hot, you need to set the towers to small. If your subwoofer in the towers is running off a separate subwoofer cable, you'll be fine as far as sound goes. You need to use your onscreen display on your Denon via your remote, and go to speaker setup. There, you can set all your speakers to small. You should absolutely set your Denon's crossover to 80Hz, and let the subwoofer in the towers handle everything below that Hz. It's all in the manual, and if I know Denon, you'll want to read that thing 5x to understand it. I wouldn't rely too heavily on the auto eq - they're easily affected by such little things as the refridgerator kicking on. You can easily set your speaker distance with a tape measure.

thank you and you are not kidding about the manual, it's a little complicated specially for a noob like myself, are you sure I should set my speakers to small? I will try it but I thought I read in the manual of the def techs to label them as large. but I will try that, I know how to get to the onscreen and I didn't know what to do with the crossover. but I thank you for your help, I will try that, I seem to have too much bass and sound effects and I am unable to hear the vocals. I have the CLR2300 from Def tech as well.

 

[skasol]

The number of the volume setting is completely arbitrary- it doesn't correspond to any actual acoustic value. I wouldn't worry at all about the setting provided you're not hearing distortions or running overly hot. Different brands have different interfaces, nothing to worry about. I'm on my 3rd Denon myself; FWIW I seldom run about -15, but that would vary from model to model and room to room.

I thank you as well for your input, I thought I was doing something wrong, I guess I will continue to read on and try and error, now I need to fix the fact that the bass is too loud and the vocals are hard to hear unless I raise the volume.

 

[Rob Babcock]

It's hard to make a diagnosis based on the slender info provided, but there's a lot of factors in the sound. Especially with a receiver as sophisticated as that Denon. A lot of flexibilty= a lot of complexity, unfortunately.

 

[ggunnell]

I don't know this Denon model, but many receivers still have 'Bass' and 'Treble' controls somewhere in the setup menus. Although not recommended as a permanent fix, if you can find the Bass control and reduce it somewhat this might get you by in the short term. Remember to reset this to flat or '0' before running the Audyssey setup again.

 

[wafflebird]

GO with Buckeye1s' info

Even though your speakers are physically "Large" they have built in powered subs. The way the receiver "Sees" speakers when you have it set to large is it wants to give those speakers full range signal, meaning all of the high and low frequencies. So it is outputting a lot of power out of the regular speaker wire connections. Since you have built in subs in those speakers that is not necessary. When you set up your crossover in the receiver say at 80 Hz you are telling the receiver to send above 80 Hz out to the speakers via the speaker wires, and 80Hz and below signals go out the sub output cable, and remember those subs have their own amp. Lower frequencies are a lot “Harder” on a receiver as it requires a lot more power to drive bass drivers as it does mid-range and tweeters. That driver has to move in and out to produce the lower frequencies. As mentioned if the receiver is trying to drive large speakers it may very well get hot as it is being made to work harder than it needs to by trying to supply your speaker section all of the upper and lower frequencies. The receiver does not have to do that because your built in subs don’t need power from the receiver, just the signal from the sub cable. There are some really great articles on bass management here on this site. If you take a little time and read them it will "Click" you will then know what the deal is. You have some great speakers enjoy them.

 

[skasol]

Even though your speakers are physically "Large" they have built in powered subs. The way the receiver "Sees" speakers when you have it set to large is it wants to give those speakers full range signal, meaning all of the high and low frequencies. So it is outputting a lot of power out of the regular speaker wire connections. Since you have built in subs in those speakers that is not necessary. When you set up your crossover in the receiver say at 80 Hz you are telling the receiver to send above 80 Hz out to the speakers via the speaker wires, and 80Hz and below signals go out the sub output cable, and remember those subs have their own amp. Lower frequencies are a lot “Harder” on a receiver as it requires a lot more power to drive bass drivers as it does mid-range and tweeters. That driver has to move in and out to produce the lower frequencies. As mentioned if the receiver is trying to drive large speakers it may very well get hot as it is being made to work harder than it needs to by trying to supply your speaker section all of the upper and lower frequencies. The receiver does not have to do that because your built in subs don’t need power from the receiver, just the signal from the sub cable. There are some really great articles on bass management here on this site. If you take a little time and read them it will "Click" you will then know what the deal is. You have some great speakers enjoy them.

thank you all, I will play with this a little more, I do like the receiver much better than my old yamaha HTR-5590, I will also set the speakers to small, eventhough the auto set up set them as large. thank you again.

 

[Nick250]

thank you and you are not kidding about the manual, it's a little complicated specially for a noob like myself, are you sure I should set my speakers to small?.

Without question, including the surrounds which Auto Setup may have set large as well. An additional note, on the setup screen where you set the cross over levels, their may be a setting for the "LFE" crossover (I have it on my 3806). The default is 120 and that is how it should remain. Just double check it. l know the manual is terrible, but keep at it and at some point it will all start to gel. Keep us informed.

Nick

 

[skasol]

thank you.

 

[skasol]

Without question, including the surrounds which Auto Setup may have set large as well. An additional note, on the setup screen where you set the cross over levels, their may be a setting for the "LFE" crossover (I have it on my 3806). The default is 120 and that is how it should remain. Just double check it. l know the manual is terrible, but keep at it and at some point it will all start to gel. Keep us informed.

Nick

per your recommendation, I went ahead and switched the LFE crossover to 120, it was set at 80Hz, also I changed the fronts to small and the center channel to small, I am not sure where to set up the crossover to the front, center and surround, they are currently set in the following order, Front small 40Hz, Center (small) 40Hz, surround (small) 80Hz, LFE 120Hz, to be honest and I know plenty of you will laugh at this, I am not sure what the Hz do, is lower better, higher better? I am not sure but they do sound cleaner, thank you for the advice, how should I set teh other speakers Hz? sorry for all the Noob questions, you have to start some where.

 

[Takeereasy]

set all the speakers to 80hz. Hz is just an electrical measurement dealing with cycle rates. What it refers to when dealing with speakers is this:

Humans in general can hear between 20hz and 20,000hz (20khz). In speakers when the term full range is used it means that a speaker can reproduce that entire spectrum, between 20hz and 20khz. 20hz is where your DEEP DEEP DEEP bass is. Very low frequencies indeed. People talk about feeling 20hz more than hearing it. For 20,000hz, (or 20khz same thing) think high pitched violin or woodwind instruments.

Higher or lower really isn't better, just a different part of the sound spectrum so to speak. (Stay out of this bass heads, I'll come to it) What everyone is suggesting is that you stop your receiver from sending anything lower than 80hz to the non powered parts of your towers. That part can't reproduce really low bass anyway, and the strain put on your receiver is much greater when it is being called on to send a full range signal. By crossing all speakers at 80hz you will be conserving power from the receiver and letting the mids and tweeters in the speakers do their job. You won't be missing anything in the sound but things will be a lot clearer as you've already started to notice. The LFE being set to 120 means that all signals 120hz and below are being sent from the receiver to the sub. The speakers are playing everything down to 80hz, and the sub is playing from 20hz to 120hz. Yes there is some overlap but that is ok. Don't worry about that part. You've got a great set up, enjoy the heck out of it.

 

[Nick250]

per your recommendation, I went ahead and switched the LFE crossover to 120, it was set at 80Hz, also I changed the fronts to small and the center channel to small, I am not sure where to set up the crossover to the front, center and surround, they are currently set in the following order, Front small 40Hz, Center (small) 40Hz, surround (small) 80Hz, LFE 120Hz, to be honest and I know plenty of you will laugh at this, I am not sure what the Hz do, is lower better, higher better? I am not sure but they do sound cleaner, thank you for the advice, how should I set teh other speakers Hz? sorry for all the Noob questions, you have to start some where.

IMO set all the crossovers to 80Hz. It is the de facto industry standard and the THX standard so I suggest setting it there for now. Later on, if you want, you can experiment using different crossovers, but for now, IMO it makes sense to use 80Hz and not over complicate things. They are complicated enough already. On the 3806 you set the surrounds crossover and large/small in the same menu as the fronts. You may have to arrow down.


Nick

 

[skasol]

thank you for all your help nick, I really appreciate the help. I will do this, and I think setting the sub at 120Hz, lowered the booming out of it, but now I don't hear it as much. thank you once again.