JBL S120PII sub is here!

[j_garcia]

Not many people can hear bass at 20Hz. It is even questionable how many people can hear bass at 25Hz. At those frequencies, unless the volume is VERY loud, at moderate listening volumes, you are going to feel the bass rather than hear it.

While this may be true to some extent, it is definitely worth it to have a sub that extends below 20Hz. The tactile addition is still of benefit, perhaps moreso for movies than music, but it is certainly worth while in my book.

A 12inch woofer is not going to have the speed of an 8inch woofer. The 12inch woofer is better suited for producing bass, not midbass. If you restrict that 12inch woofer to playing just bass, it's going to sound cleaner and tighter. If you set the crossover too high, the 12inch woofer is going to sound muddy playing the midbass.

That depends on the design of the driver and the overall design of the sub. A good, sealed 12" sub can still have decent midbass, but usually a sub that has decent midbass gives up extension, and vice versa.

That's why when it comes to mains, you should get mains that can extend as low as possible into the bass region. So pairing floorstanders with a powered sub is the ideal combination.

I'd have to disagree with that somewhat as well. I agree you should get mains that extend low enough to blend with your sub. It's more about correct positioning and selection of the right x-over to get a good blend for your particular setup that makes the difference. Speaker selection is important to that, but proper setup is just as important.

Bookshelves can't extend very low. And the 12inch woofer has to make up for that by playing midbass.

There are bookshelf speakers that extend to 40Hz. Mine are good to 55Hz and with an 80Hz x-over the blend is nearly seemless. The average bookshelf that extends to 50-60Hz is sufficient to create a nice blend in most cases.

 

[Tomorrow]

Furry,

Have you gotten the sub in place and set up yet? Have you run some good bass stuff through it? How is it doing? (I'm hoping it's great and you're loving it!) Give us an update.

 

[furrycute]

Right now the JBL is placed around a corner. The bass volume is up perceptably.

But more importantly, I made one major addition to my stereo rig, that improved substantially the sound of my entire system. I added a powered preamp. Yes, I used to use a passive preamp. Somehow with the passive preamp, there just wasn't as much bass as I liked. Everything sounded "lean."

Now with the powered preamp (a Parasound), wow! Where did those bass come from. And the bass from the JBL now sounds tighter, punchier. I'm still not sure if it was the preamp or the sub placement. Perhaps both.


Very interesting observations. Perhaps I'm not as much of a purist as I thought I was (purist being the reason why I went with a passive preamp). Perhaps I do like a bit of distortion after all (powered preamp).

 

[furrycute]

Right now I have the sub crossed over at its lowest crossover, 50Hz. The sub volume is set at just shy of half max. Right now I think the sub blends really well with the mains.

And talking about room shaking bass. I actually found a CD with some real bass. And guess what, the walls did start to rattle a bit. But being late at night, I didn't want to play it too loud. So I'll play the same tracks in the afternoon, with the volume turned WAY up!

 

[j_garcia]

Nice. Good to hear that it's working well now.

 

[Tomorrow]

Right now I have the sub crossed over at its lowest crossover, 50Hz. The sub volume is set at just shy of half max. Right now I think the sub blends really well with the mains.

And talking about room shaking bass. I actually found a CD with some real bass. And guess what, the walls did start to rattle a bit. But being late at night, I didn't want to play it too loud. So I'll play the same tracks in the afternoon, with the volume turned WAY up!

Good show, Furry Glad to hear it!!

 

[fergusonv]

I'd just like to add that for mine the gain on the sub didn't make much difference until about 3/4. I have read posts from others on different forums who have made the same observation. I am getting a ton of clean output from the mid 20's and up in a 20x24 room.

 

[furrycute]

I concur with the observation. At normal listening levels, you do have to turn the gain 3/4 of the way up until you can hear the bass. At 1/2 the volume, you can mostly feel the punch. But if you turn the gain up too much, the bass is not as tight.

 

[furrycute]

After much thought, I decided to return the JBL.

The problem is, if I turn the crossover around 80Hz, even though I do get lots of bass, the bass is not very tight.

If I set the crossover at 50Hz, the lowest setting, I rarely get the feeling the sub is even on, except when I play some bass heavy tracks. But at 50Hz, the sub does add that extra kick in the lowest bass regions that I do not usually get with my floorstanders.


I have 2 amps, and since the preamp I just acquired has 2 pre-outs, I experimented with bi-amping my speakers. Bi-amping does give me more bass, even without the sub in the loop. So I finally decided I may just well return the sub.


When I have the funds, I will most likely purchase a sealed sub, probably a Velodyne HGS or Velodyne DD series. That way, when I set the crossover at around 80Hz, I'll get cleaner midbass.

 

[Tomorrow]

After much thought, I decided to return the JBL.

The problem is, if I turn the crossover around 80Hz, even though I do get lots of bass, the bass is not very tight.

If I set the crossover at 50Hz, the lowest setting, I rarely get the feeling the sub is even on, except when I play some bass heavy tracks. But at 50Hz, the sub does add that extra kick in the lowest bass regions that I do not usually get with my floorstanders.


I have 2 amps, and since the preamp I just acquired has 2 pre-outs, I experimented with bi-amping my speakers. Bi-amping does give me more bass, even without the sub in the loop. So I finally decided I may just well return the sub.


When I have the funds, I will most likely purchase a sealed sub, probably a Velodyne HGS or Velodyne DD series. That way, when I set the crossover at around 80Hz, I'll get cleaner midbass.

Sorry, Furry.

I hope it wasn't me that ruined the experiment. But I do think you're making the right decision. You'll be happier in the long run, I believe.

 

[furrycute]

No, it wasn't anyone's influence that made me decide to return the sub. I tested the sub out for about a week, and I just felt the midbass isn't as tight as I would have liked.

It's funny how the saying goes, "always buy the best you can afford." Otherwise if you purchase something less expensive, you'll always end up upgrading later. I lost about $30 on shipping the sub back to J&R. That's $30 I could have used towards purchasing a Velodyne. Oh well.


No more monkey business (sub business), until I have the funds to purchase a serious sub.

 

[furrycute]

Another thing is, JBL lists this sub with a weight of 56lb. But with the actual packaging, the whole thing weighs over 70lb. Almost broke my back hauling it to my local UPS store.

 

[superman180]

Furry,

You have probably already heard this, but I would look into an SVS sub. You will have all the bass you will ever need at any frequencies cut off. I love my PB12 plus/2. And it weighs just over 100 pounds. Only con of this sub is it rattles drywall loose

 

[j_garcia]

Well, it's $30 that you spent to find out it wasn't what you wanted. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

Have you thought about the Cadence X-sub? HSU STF-2?

PB-10?

 

[furrycute]

Next time when I go for a sub, I'm going for the best one I can afford. So that means a Velodyne HGS or a DD 12 or 15inch, or a Rel Stadium.

No more mucking around with "cheap" subs.

After having had the JBL for a while, now I understand the importance of a good sub. I'm not looking for a sub that has monster volume. But the bass needs to be tight, and the all important midbass needs to be tight. The sub needs to be able to portray the nuances of midbass frequencies all the way down to bass frequencies. And the sub needs to have low low low distortion.

I'm going to wait a couple of years before my next sub purchase.

 

[jaxvon]

DD1812 Signature. The only 2-way subwoofer that I know of. Of course, it'll set you back $15k, but it'll rock the house. And your neighbors' houses.

 

[furrycute]

Great Scott! That sub weighs almost 400lb! I'll need a forklift just to move that thing!

Maybe something less heavy would better suit my needs.

The Velodyne DD series is a great series, amazing amounts of power with servo control and room correction. There is a review of the DD15 right here on audioholics. One day I may get a DD15 or a pair of DD12's... One day... Drool...One day...