JBL 580's - first comments and questions.

[KEW]

I got my pair of 580's and unboxed them.
JBL could learn a little about packing and presentation from Klipsch. I would consider my RF-82 II's to be roughly in the same class. I will be comparing these two speakers in the near future, but first impressions matter and the Klipsch packaging and unpacking instructions allowed me to feel like I got something special while the JBL was thoroughly utilitarian. There is no significant cost to having better unpacking instruction on the exterior of the box. From a practical standpoint, this is not a big deal because you only unpack them once, but if I was JBL, I would want my customers to be as proud of their purchase as possible to reduce the incidence of returns!
They have an interesting panel to act as the lower section of the waveguide if you prefer to leave the grill off of the mid-woofers.
The upper pic shows w/o & with grill, the lower pic shows this panel installed (and an interesting speaker stand in the background - looks like a very small Martin-Logan sub for the base):

Unfortunately one of these panels is defective - it looks like one of the mounting pins was mashed while it was still hot - right after coming out of the molding machine and there is no way to align/install this panel!
Normally, I would follow the normal retarded system of returning the entire speaker to get a functioning panel! However, since these are out of stock, I don't want to end up with a single speaker!

Question #1 - Does anyone have ideas on how to contact JBL directly to get a replacement part sent? I think Sound Designs was the seller, but figure JBL is who ultimately will replace the panel. Not sure I will ever use it, but I want the speakers to be whole in case I sell them.

Question #2 - The crossover is at 1500kHz. Will the removal of the grill over the mid drivers have an audible effect? I generally think of grills as effecting the higher frequencies, but don't know what frequencies would likely be compromised by the grill.

Question #3 - Often, with dual woofers, one is a mid-woof and the other is only a woofer. However only one crossover frequency is specified so I assume there is no BSC (baffle step compensation). Does the use of a compression tweeter with horn somehow eliminate the need for BSC? (FWIW, the Klipsch does not have BSC either)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've never been impressed with the packing of Revel, JBL, or Infinity speakers.

I have never contacted Revel or JBL.

 

[Pogre]

I've been very interested in these speakers as I was suggesting them to a friend when the price dropped. I'm almost positive I would have gotten these if they were at this price when I got my Ultras. I'd probably would be a JBL fanboy right now!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

he Klipsch does not have BSC either)

I must be missing something here. How do you know that the JBL's or Klipsch's don't have baffle step compensation? Any serious speaker has at least some, and it's done in the crossover network, irrespective of how many woofers are used or whether they're covering the same range. So you wouldn't know whether the speakers lacked bsc unless you measured them or could somehow tell from the component values on the crossover board. Anyhow, they're impressive looking beasts.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought the packing was quite good, especially compared to my 590s, what was lacking?

 

[speakerman39]

Kurt, that small sub also looks a lot like the Baby Boomer I owned just a short while ago. BTW, many over @AVS had issues with packaging/shipping damage w/respect to the towers. My 530's arrived fully intact. Never removed the grilles and they sounded fabulous right out of the box! Looking forward to your listening impressions.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[KEW]

I must be missing something here. How do you know that the JBL's or Klipsch's don't have baffle step compensation? Any serious speaker has at least some, and it's done in the crossover network, irrespective of how many woofers are used or whether they're covering the same range. So you wouldn't know whether the speakers lacked bsc unless you measured them or could somehow tell from the component values on the crossover board. Anyhow, they're impressive looking beasts.

Thanks for the response/correction. Based on your comments, I am sure I am mistaken.
I had a PM discussion with TLSGuy regarding the Focal Twins and based on the FR and other measurements, he commented that they had used the second woofer for dealing with BSC. There are several speakers that are categorized as 2.5 way speakers and I mistakenly inferred that they all did this to accomplish BSC.
I know that the woofers of the FS-52 are crossed at 250Hz and 3kHz depending on if they are acting as woofer or mid-woofer.
Is this more often done to balance the efficiency of the lows vs the mids?

 

[KEW]

I thought the packing was quite good, especially compared to my 590s, what was lacking?

The pictograms on the box flap were a bit unclear/cryptic and did not match the packaging that was used. I suspect they made changes to the packaging but did not update the graphics on the box. But overall it was less a matter of anything lacking and more a matter of the Klipsch being a slicker presentation.
I am biased in that I expect the JBL may be the speaker I will prefer listening to, but there is no denying that Klipsch does a very good job of making a speaker that looks "kick-ass" and that philosophy extends into the packaging/presentation.
I am an engineer and appreciate when function is given priority, but also recognize that form is still important (especially regarding consumer sales). I guess the main reason I bother to mention it is I consider Harman Industries to be hallowed ground for audio and it bothers me to see them making such great performing products while making other decisions which limit their success.

 

[zieglj01]

Question #1 - Does anyone have ideas on how to contact JBL directly to get a replacement part sent? I think Sound Designs was the seller, but figure JBL is who ultimately will replace the panel. Not sure I will ever use it, but I want the speakers to be whole in case I sell them.

look at the JBL page here
https://www.jbl.com/support-product.html

 

[lovinthehd]

The pictograms on the box flap were a bit unclear/cryptic and did not match the packaging that was used. I suspect they made changes to the packaging but did not update the graphics on the box. But overall it was less a matter of anything lacking and more a matter or the Klipsch being a slicker presentation.
I am biased in that I expect the JBL may be the speaker I will prefer listening to, but there is no denying that Klipsch does a very good job of making a speaker that looks "kick-ass" and that philosophy extends into the packaging/presentation.
I am an engineer and appreciate when function is given priority, but also recognize that form is still important (especially regarding consumer sales). I guess the main reason I bother to mention it is I consider Harman Industries to be hallowed ground for audio and it bothers me to see them making such great performing products while making other decisions which limit their success.

Hmm I'd have to look at the pictograms but seem to remember they were okay...for pictograms (at least they're large enuf to read unlike those on my phone ). OTOH I spent my life in logistics and the packing on the 580s was quite good in that respect, I don't need a picture or instructions on unpacking pretty much anything, so maybe I'm a bit biased . As I said, compared to the packing on the 590s it was a big difference (the 590s not anywhere near as well packed and they're even bigger/heavier).

 

[zieglj01]

The cost control of some of the companies are starting to amaze me, and tends to also effect packaging. I am still amazed at the sort of weak Canton packaging.

 

[lovinthehd]

The cost control of some of the companies are starting to amaze me, and tends to also effect packaging. I am still amazed at the sort of weak Canton packaging.

Oh, plenty of companies under-pack, and takes a pretty good bit of damaged goods costs before they realize the little they saved on packing is relatively unimportant compared to the effects in several other cost arenas, let alone end customer satisfaction. Some are only good enough for a full container load and not really intended for shipment on a box by box basis with the manglers like work at UPS/Fedex either

 

[KEW]

Hmm I'd have to look at the pictograms but seem to remember they were okay...for pictograms (at least they're large enuf to read unlike those on my phone ). OTOH I spent my life in logistics and the packing on the 580s was quite good in that respect, I don't need a picture or instructions on unpacking pretty much anything, so maybe I'm a bit biased . As I said, compared to the packing on the 590s it was a big difference (the 590s not anywhere near as well packed and they're even bigger/heavier).

That is kind of my point. Why wouldn't the 590's be packed more solidly than the 580's? Engineering and marketing support should follow the product all of the way through the production process to final delivery.
As for "slickness", a perfect example is the (now somewhat passe') habit of packing a cheap pair of white gloves with your speakers. It is a gimmick, but the first time I got a pair of speakers with white gloves so I didn't get finger-prints on my new speakers, it did have the intended effect of my feeling good about buying "such a speaker that they would include gloves", LOL!

 

[KEW]

Kurt, that small sub also looks a lot like the Baby Boomer I owned just a short while ago. BTW, many over @AVS had issues with packaging/shipping damage w/respect to the towers. My 530's arrived fully intact. Never removed the grilles and they sounded fabulous right out of the box! Looking forward to your listening impressions.


Cheers,

Phil

That is another advantage of bookshelf speakers. They are much less likely to be damaged in transit!

 

[Pogre]

That is kind of my point. Why wouldn't the 590's be packed more solidly than the 580's? Engineering and marketing support should follow the product all of the way through the production process to final delivery.
As for "slickness", a perfect example is the (now somewhat passe') habit of packing a cheap pair of white gloves with your speakers. It is a gimmick, but the first time I got a pair of speakers with white gloves so I didn't get finger-prints on my new speakers, it did have the intended effect of my feeling good about buying "such a speaker that they would include gloves", LOL!

I used to wear white cotton gloves all day at work and have a drawer full of them. I still haven't touched my speakers with my bare hands!

 

[KEW]

I used to wear white cotton gloves all day at work and have a drawer full of them. I still haven't touched my speakers with my bare hands!

Curious, did SVS include a pair?
I'm thinking that the white gloves eventually got associated with inexpensive speakers wanting to pretend to be high end, since I haven't seen or read of them being included with any speakers recently.

 

[speakerman39]

Curious, did SVS include a pair?
I'm thinking that the white gloves eventually got associated with inexpensive speakers wanting to pretend to be high end, since I haven't seen or read of them being included with any speakers recently.

YESSSSSSSSS!





Cheers,

Phil

 

[KEW]

YESSSSSSSSS!


Cheers,

Phil

Well there is that "Assuming" thing biting me in the butt once again!
I guess reviewers do not consider it as noteworthy as they initially did.

 

[speakerman39]

Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

That is kind of my point. Why wouldn't the 590's be packed more solidly than the 580's? Engineering and marketing support should follow the product all of the way through the production process to final delivery.
As for "slickness", a perfect example is the (now somewhat passe') habit of packing a cheap pair of white gloves with your speakers. It is a gimmick, but the first time I got a pair of speakers with white gloves so I didn't get finger-prints on my new speakers, it did have the intended effect of my feeling good about buying "such a speaker that they would include gloves", LOL!

LOL now that you mention it I think my SVS speakers came with white gloves....seem to remember the gloves were crap, fell apart or something like that but that could have been me trying to make other uses for them.