IXOS cable opinions?

C

cbevil

Enthusiast
A while back I bought some audio equipment and needed interconnects. The shop offered me half off on some IXOS cables. I'd never heard of IXOS, but the price was reasonable so I bought two pair. After reading articles on this site, I want to make sure I haven't bought bad cables. And what I mean by that is cables that will actually sound worse than something from, say, BJC. And by worse I mean altering the signal, as opposed to just transporting the signal.

The cables I got use their "gamma geometry", which is explained here:

http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/learn.asp?Article=4

I understand that no cable will make things sound "better" through some fancy technology. I just want to make sure these cables aren't actually making things worse than they need to be. :)
 
F

f0am

Audioholic
Long story short, I was talked into buying those when I had installers at my house 2 years ago. They were telling me that they could build me custom cables for 400 bucks or I could buy a set of IXO component video cables for 250 bucks. Well back then I didn't know wtf I was doing when it came to cables. So I bought them. There were 25-30 feet long, worked great. Worth the money... HELL NO
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I ran Ixos speaker cable in my walls. I also have about a dozen RCA audio interconnect cables. They are well made cables and perform well. I like how tight their connectors fit on the RCA interconnects. Not many companies make them that way.

But that being said, I wouldn't buy them again unless I got an unbelievable deal. I know I could do better today.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
I use IXOS Gamma Shimmer speaker cable, along with their naners. Top quality stuff. No need to replace. Not going to hear a difference with any cable, unless you have some very cheap cables that don't make a good connection. You don't have cheap cables.

I purchase from BJC when I need new stuff now. I like how their site is set-up. I like their no BS, straight forward approach. Very easy to order exactly what you need fast. And, it makes it to your door fast.

I would recommend BJC in the future, but again, no need to replace what you have.

Good place for IXOS.
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi
 
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C

cbevil

Enthusiast
OK, sounds like what I have is good enough to keep. I realize they are a bit pricey, but it's what I've got now, so it's cheaper to keep and use them rather than buy new cables. I was mostly worried that there would be some sort of degradation due to the manufacturer trying to muck with the characteristics of the cable (like with silver plating or adding capacitors...). Sounds like this is not the case.

Zumbo, that site does have good prices, about 40% less than I paid in the shop (and that was at 50% off their normal price...).

Thanks for the input, all!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
cbevil said:
I was mostly worried that there would be some sort of degradation due to the manufacturer trying to muck with the characteristics of the cable (like with silver plating ...). .

Silver plating will not 'muck' the sound. Who said that it will?
 
C

cbevil

Enthusiast
Hmmm, thought I read that on this site. I did read this article -- but it has no mention of sound issues. The only thing I could find on websites I've browsed lately is actually from a manufacturer's site -- Cobalt Cable. This would be a biased source of information (not necessarily an indication that they are wrong, but something to note). Sorry for the mix-up, my memory is apparently not up to snuff.

Anyway, below is what Cobalt has to say; I'm curious as to whether you think this is valid or not; I'm just learning about all of this.

Myth #8: Silver plating makes cables better.
This is another touchy subject, so we will just deal with facts without interjecting too much opinion.

Silver plating the conductors of cables has become very popular, since you can allegedly get the gain of using silver conductors without the cost of pure silver conductors. Since silver is a better conductor than copper, this makes sense. This gain is typically explained by the phenomenon of “skin effect”. Basically speaking, skin effect happens when signals only use the outside (or “skin) of a conductor as they ride down the wire. So, the argument is that if your signals are only using the “skin” of the wire, silver plating is a great thing since your signal will ride down the plating, and you will not have the added expense of using silver for the core of the wire, since it is not used anyway.

That all sounds nice, but as usual, the truth is going to really wreck a great story. The fact of the matter is that skin effect does exist. In fact, it is based on the signal frequency. That is, the higher the frequency of the signal, the less the “skin depth” (how far the signal goes into the conductor) will be. So, once you reach a certain threshold, silver plating will be great because the skin depth of the signal will be the same as the depth of the plating.

However, there is a problem. In order for this to be a reality, the frequency of the signal will need to be well north of 1 GHz (billions of hertz) to make this a reality. In consumer audio and video, the highest frequency application is HDTV video, which is about 33 MHz (millions of hertz). As you can see, even the highest frequency application is still 20 times too low of a frequency to take advantage of silver plating. As another example, analog audio (e.g. Audio Interconnects) only run in the KHz (thousands of hertz).

OK, so what happens when you run a signal whose frequency is too low to take advantage of skin effect? What happens is you have the signal using two different conductor materials for its transmission. You have one part of the signal (usually the highest frequency portion of the signal, typically the highest treble in audio) using the silver plating and the rest of the signal uses whatever the core is made out of. So, you have two different conductors handling different parts of the signal. Since silver is a better conductor than copper (most typically used as the core, but we have seen silver plated steel conductors), the portion of the signal that is using the silver will get an artificial boost. In audio terms, this is called a high-pass filter. That is, the high portion of the signal is passing through fine while the lower portion of the signal (e.g. midrange and bass) is being cut. With this type of situation, what you usually end up hearing is audio that is biased towards the highs (this is usually called “bright” or “tinny”).

However, this is not necessarily bad. It just totally goes against our philosophy of how to build a great cable. If you find that your system is lacking in high-end energy (it just sounds dead or dull), then one of these cables may make your system sound better to you. Conversely, though, if your system is balanced or already sounds a little “bright “ to you, silver plated cables could be a nightmare.
Link
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
The explanation sounds valid to me but they did gloss over one little detail and that is that silver is only a marginally better conductor than copper. I assume that the reason there will be an artificial boost is because the portion of the signal travelling over the silver will propogate slightly faster. Emphasis on *slightly* - the signal is already travelling at approximately 70% of the speed of light. I believe any such boost would be inaudible.

But it is true that cable makers that use silver sometimes make outlandish claims for why it is better including 'skin effect' which the quote notes is irrelevant at audio frequencies.
 
C

cbevil

Enthusiast
It would be interesting to do some double-blind tests to see if there was an audible difference.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MDS said:
the signal is already travelling at approximately 70% of the speed of light. .

Signal propagation velocity does not depend on that silver coating, or that copper cable core, but the dielectric constant DC which is part of the insulation material calculation. At least I have not seen formulas with metal conduction being part of this calculation. But, I have been know to be wrong, from time to time:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
cbevil said:
It would be interesting to do some double-blind tests to see if there was an audible difference.

Good luck:D Waste of time, big time.
 
C

cbevil

Enthusiast
mtrycrafts said:
Good luck:D Waste of time, big time.
You are probably right, of course :) -- I can predict the results of such a test being no audible difference. But I'd do it, if I had the setup for it and some spare time (and the cables required...). I think it would be interesting to test several cables to see if I could hear any difference at all. Maybe get some other people to listen as well, and compare results afterwards.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
cbevil said:
You are probably right, of course :) -- I can predict the results of such a test being no audible difference. But I'd do it, if I had the setup for it and some spare time (and the cables required...). I think it would be interesting to test several cables to see if I could hear any difference at all. Maybe get some other people to listen as well, and compare results afterwards.

Well, you could try it by manual switching of cables but that has memory drawbacks. By the time you switch, your memory is gone.
If you want to try. Have an interested party switch it while you are out of the room. Have them keep track of course, random order, or no switching at all for any of the trials:D , and the listener, you, other golden ear friends, listen and write down your guesses. :D You need 9 of 10, 12 of 16 correct guesses.:p
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
mtrycrafts said:
Well, you could try it by manual switching of cables but that has memory drawbacks. By the time you switch, your memory is gone.
If you want to try. Have an interested party switch it while you are out of the room. Have them keep track of course, random order, or no switching at all for any of the trials:D , and the listener, you, other golden ear friends, listen and write down your guesses. :D You need 9 of 10, 12 of 16 correct guesses.:p
Remember to come back in the room!:D

I bet the pretty ones will sound the best. It's always the pretty ones.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
zumbo said:
Remember to come back in the room!:D

If not, then you call on your wife or girlfriend to listen. They can hear differences form anywhere:D So I am told.:p
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
mtrycrafts said:
If not, then you call on your wife or girlfriend to listen. They can hear differences form anywhere:D So I am told.:p
Yes, but you forgot to add 'even though she doesn't care about audio at all.' :)
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
Also she noticed it all the way from the kitchen.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MDS said:
Yes, but you forgot to add 'even though she doesn't care about audio at all.' :)

How could I have forgotten that. You got me. LOL :D
 
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