Issues With Trial System

[mbox]

Hello again,

I am trying out a new system (audio only for now) based somewhat on recommendations from this board. Everything is returnable within thirty days, so I'm just in the trial stage at the moment. Here is what I've got: 2 Axiom M60tis; 1 Yamaha RXV-1600; Yamaha c750 dvd player. Here are the issues... I purchased the RXV-1600 because it was on sale and because, when we tried it out in the store, it sounded both warmer than the other receivers that we listened to but without seeming to sacrifice clarity. I listened to the Denon 3805, the Yamaha 2500, and a couple of other Yamaha's that were less expensive than the Yamaha 2500. As for the speakers, I figured there wasn't any harm trying the Axiom speakers and they had been highly recommended, so we decided to give those a go.

Now I have a few concerns. First, I'm thinking maybe I should downgrade to a less expensive and complicated receiver since we won't be using this for home theater for at least a year. Second, the sound from the speakers sounds "echoey" (new word?) and lacks a certain richness. Is this what people refer to when they speak of a "bright" sound? Perhaps the issue is that we don't have a subwoofer. On the other hand, perhaps the problem is that we have wood floors (with only a very small floor rug) and that the room, though smallish (17 x 13), has at the tallest point a 20 foot ceiling or so. Further, the room has a larger opening into another room that has a ceiling that at the tallest point is about that height. As for the calibration of the receiver, I used the auto setup feature with the microphone Yamaha supplied.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions... I'm open to trying a subwoofer, changing the receiver, and/or trying different speakers. I should note, though, that there isn't anywhere nearby that provides a great selection of speakers to listen to.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[mulester7]

.....MBox, stand right in front of one of the Axiom M60Ti's about two feet from it, cup your ears with your hands, and see if you still get the "echoey" effect....if you still hear it, get a blanket or comforter, stretch it high overhead, opened, draping down your back, and bring your hands forward laying them on top of the speaker, and see if you STILL hear the echoey effect....the latter especially, takes the room conditions out of play....from your descriptions, it sounds like you need to tame that room a bit.....

 

[jaxvon]

I'm thinking that your problem is an issue with the room acoustics. If you stand in the middle of your listening room and clap, what does it sound like?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello again,

I am trying out a new system (audio only for now) based somewhat on recommendations from this board. Everything is returnable within thirty days, so I'm just in the trial stage at the moment. Here is what I've got: 2 Axiom M60tis; 1 Yamaha RXV-1600; Yamaha c750 dvd player. Here are the issues... I purchased the RXV-1600 because it was on sale and because, when we tried it out in the store, it sounded both warmer than the other receivers that we listened to but without seeming to sacrifice clarity. I listened to the Denon 3805, the Yamaha 2500, and a couple of other Yamaha's that were less expensive than the Yamaha 2500. As for the speakers, I figured there wasn't any harm trying the Axiom speakers and they had been highly recommended, so we decided to give those a go.

Now I have a few concerns. First, I'm thinking maybe I should downgrade to a less expensive and complicated receiver since we won't be using this for home theater for at least a year. Second, the sound from the speakers sounds "echoey" (new word?) and lacks a certain richness. Is this what people refer to when they speak of a "bright" sound? Perhaps the issue is that we don't have a subwoofer. On the other hand, perhaps the problem is that we have wood floors (with only a very small floor rug) and that the room, though smallish (17 x 13), has at the tallest point a 20 foot ceiling or so. Further, the room has a larger opening into another room that has a ceiling that at the tallest point is about that height. As for the calibration of the receiver, I used the auto setup feature with the microphone Yamaha supplied.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions... I'm open to trying a subwoofer, changing the receiver, and/or trying different speakers. I should note, though, that there isn't anywhere nearby that provides a great selection of speakers to listen to.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Do I understand you correctly that you listened to the Axiom at the show room?
What was their room like? I bet it didn't have all wood floors, or a huge opening with 20ft ceilings, right?
If you liked those speakers, and you should have as they are darn good speakers, the only issue left at your home is your room acoustics, plain and simple. Correcting the problems will not be so easy though.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm thinking that your problem is an issue with the room acoustics. If you stand in the middle of your listening room and clap, what does it sound like?

I agree that this seems to be an issue related to home acoustics. Do the modest tests that have been suggested here. However, I demo'd some Paradigms, different models, different rooms, that all demonstrated a compressed, yet bright, sound to them that I could think of as being described as "echoey". I wouldn't buy Paradigm off those auditions at any price, particularly for music listening. Para's have been compared fraternally with Axioms, so perhaps you hear something similar to what I heard.

A lot of one's experience with new speakers will be framed by one's familiarity with others, previously heard. But Ax's are very well received herein, so give them a fair hearing.

 

[jaxvon]

If you hear an echo when you clap (as I suggested earlier), you should try to tone down your first reflections.

What you need:

Mirror
You
Someone else willing to help

Sit in your primary listening position and have your helper hold the mirror against the wall. Have the person slide the mirror from the speakers towards you until the reflection of the speaker is centered in the mirror. Mark this spot somehow. Do the same for the other side of the room. Now, in these places, place something diffusive (bookshelf) or absorptive (wall throw, heavy curtain, acoustic panel). This will help focus the sound more in the room and perhaps get rid of or tame the "echoy" sound.

 

[Snap]

If you hear an echo when you clap (as I suggested earlier), you should try to tone down your first reflections.

What you need:

Mirror
You
Someone else willing to help

Sit in your primary listening position and have your helper hold the mirror against the wall. Have the person slide the mirror from the speakers towards you until the reflection of the speaker is centered in the mirror. Mark this spot somehow. Do the same for the other side of the room. Now, in these places, place something diffusive (bookshelf) or absorptive (wall throw, heavy curtain, acoustic panel). This will help focus the sound more in the room and perhaps get rid of or tame the "echoy" sound.

Freaking communitst plot I tell you. every time I try and give some green gum it will not let me! JAX this is the second time in a day that I was trying to give you some. Stupid computer will not let me.

Right on with your trouble shooting tips.

Mule same goes for your ideas with the bed spred. I tried guys....

Great post to the both of ya!

 

[sts9fan]

If you like the yamaha but do not want all the extras try the RX-777. Its a 100wpc stereo reciver. I have one with the c750 and love it. I can't comment on the speakers but it does sond like a room issue.

 

[jcPanny]

Yamaha receiver.

Consider trading in the RX-V1600 for the 2500. Has more power and features (except HDMI) for less money. Having an HT receiver will make it easiery for you to upgrade by gradually adding a sub, center, and surround speakers.

In addition to testing the walls, throw a couple rugs on the floor.

 

[mbox]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I did some of the tests suggested, which made me think the problem wasn't the room after all. I purchased some new speakers (Polk LSI7s) that I had heard at the show room and liked. These came with a free subwoofer that I hooked up as well. I did the auto setup again for the new speakers and they sounded good. Then I switched back to the Axiom's and redid the auto setup. We switched back and forth a few times and decided that we definitely liked the Axiom's better. I don't know whether the issue was a problem with the initial auto setup or what, but the problem is fixed and they sound great! I'm probably going to switch the receiver out for the 2500 though and purchase a subwoofer. Meanwhile, I'll be returning the LSI7s and the subwoofer that came with those. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[jcPanny]

Since you will not be setting up a full HT yet . . .

You might consider sticking with the 2 channel setup for a while. The M60s play pretty low down to the 30 Hz range. Consider saving up for a good sub like a 12" model from SVS or HSU or the Axiom EP500.

 

[Audioholics]

My first thought was that he had some kind of DSP mode engaged or the rear speakers were incorrectly time-aligned.