is this selection of gear ok?

[yonith]

I really appreciate everyone's input. So correct me if I'm wrong, but taking into consideration what everyone said, it seems Option 1 is mostly what everyone agrees is the best way to spend $1500:

Option 1
front: Pioneer SP-FS52 (x2) $200--:
center: Pioneer SP-C22 $100 :---(tiger direct w/shipping)
rear: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $100 -----:
sub: ??? for $500
receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K $600 (newegg)
total = 1500ish

Option 2
front: Polk TSI300 (floorstanding) (x2) $420
center: Polk CS10 $210
rear: Polk TSI100 $220
sub: ??? for 400
receiver: Denon 1712 $262
total = 1500ish

Option 3
front: Klipsch KB-15 $250
center: Klipsch KC-25 $250
rear: Klipsch KB-15 $250
sub: ??? for $500
receiver: Denon 1712 $262
total = 1500ish

EDIT: Option 4 - Could just keep it under budget as some have suggested and lose a good receiver with preamp out:
front: Pioneer SP-FS52 (x2) $200--:
center: Pioneer SP-C22 $100 :---(tiger direct w/shipping)
rear: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $100 -----:
sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 $612 (w/shipping)
receiver: Denon 1712 $262
total = $1274

 

[zieglj01]

I really appreciate everyone's input. So correct me if I'm wrong, but taking into consideration what everyone said, it seems Option 1 is mostly what everyone agrees is the best way to spend $1500:

Option 1 is my preference

Look at the Outlaw sub
Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus Powered Subwoofer

HSU Sub
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

I would not usually spend that much on a receiver for
your budget - however due to the real good deal, that
is a real good option.

 

[zieglj01]

EDIT: Option 4 - Could just keep it under budget as some have suggested and lose a good receiver with preamp out:
front: Pioneer SP-FS52 (x2) $200--:
center: Pioneer SP-C22 $100 :---(tiger direct w/shipping)
rear: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $100 -----:
sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 $612 (w/shipping)
receiver: Denon 1712 $262
total = $1274

I see that you edited your post - the choice is still up to you
concerning the receiver.

 

[Steve81]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but taking into consideration what everyone said, it seems Option 1 is mostly what everyone agrees is the best way to spend $1500:

You could certainly do a lot worse for the money than options one or four (I'd probably opt for four). Ultimately though, it's your ears you've got to please, so I'd reiterate: listen to everything you can and try to expand your horizons beyond Best Buy. $1500 isn't chump change, and you've got a heck of a lot of options open to you.

 

[ImcLoud]

I really appreciate everyone's input. So correct me if I'm wrong, but taking into consideration what everyone said, it seems Option 1 is mostly what everyone agrees is the best way to spend $1500:

Option 1
front: Pioneer SP-FS52 (x2) $200--:
center: Pioneer SP-C22 $100 :---(tiger direct w/shipping)
rear: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $100 -----:
sub: ??? for $500
receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K $600 (newegg)
total = 1500ish

total = $1274

With $500 for the budget I would get the stf2, since the next noticeable difference is going to be the vtf2 and is $620 shipped... But this is a very nice system for sure, Really you are getting a $1100 receiver with speakers and a sub for $1400 You will be very happy with this setup...

Plus this system is very easy to upgrade, even with the stf2, when you want to upgrade subs just add another stf2 to your existing one... And In my oppinion when you want to upgrade front towers, I would leave the pioneers and just add a second set of towers for music only... But thats whats nice about this system there are a lot of possibilities for later advances...


Here is another sub FR just mentioned in another post... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078&nm_mc=OTC-FroogleNEW&cm_mmc=OTC-FroogleNEW-_-Home+Audio+Speakers-_-Klipsch-_-82780078 that looks like a great buy... Its almost 1/2 price!!!

 

[Steve81]

With $500 for the budget I would get the stf2, since the next noticeable difference is going to be the vtf2 and is $620 shipped...

I would tend to agree here. One thing I appreciate about Hsu is that even their budget line of subwoofers offers competent engineering and good performance. Obviously the larger and more expensive VTF-2 is going to open up the possibilities of deeper bass and more clean output; however, I'd daresay that even the STF-2 won't have a big problem cleanly getting you to lease breaking levels.

And In my oppinion when you want to upgrade front towers, I would leave the pioneers and just add a second set of towers for music only...

Just to toss in my 2 cents, as I stated in my first post on this thread, if I were building an ideal system for this case, I'd probably not bother with towers at all, but instead aim for a higher quality bookshelf speaker.

Big tower speakers have obvious advantages, but the realities of apartment living and the utilization of a respectable powered subwoofer reduces them considerably. On the other hand, bookshelf speakers have their advantages as well: a smaller cabinet and fewer drivers equates directly to reduced cost and occasionally reduced cabinet vibration as well at the same level of refinement. At the same level of cost, I don't think it to be unreasonable to expect higher quality drivers, crossovers, etc from a bookshelf than a tower.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would tend to agree here. One thing I appreciate about Hsu is that even their budget line of subwoofers offers competent engineering and good performance. Obviously the larger and more expensive VTF-2 is going to open up the possibilities of deeper bass and more clean output; however, I'd daresay that even the STF-2 won't have a big problem cleanly getting you to lease breaking levels.



Just to toss in my 2 cents, as I stated in my first post on this thread, if I were building an ideal system for this case, I'd probably not bother with towers at all, but instead aim for a higher quality bookshelf speaker.

Big tower speakers have obvious advantages, but the realities of apartment living and the utilization of a respectable powered subwoofer reduces them considerably. On the other hand, bookshelf speakers have their advantages as well: a smaller cabinet and fewer drivers equates directly to reduced cost and occasionally reduced cabinet vibration as well at the same level of refinement. At the same level of cost, I don't think it to be unreasonable to expect higher quality drivers, crossovers, etc from a bookshelf than a tower.

I agree here, but what I noticed about bookshelfs at lower price points is there tends to be better sound for the price on towers, I know it doesnt make a lot of sense, but the cheaper bookshelfs dont sound as good {to me} as the cheaper towers....
The cheapest bookshelf I would buy is the Ascend 200 which is very good, but for a large room I wouldnt think they would be a perfect fit... at 300+ a pair, there would be better sounding towers available...

I understand where you are coming from, just in my experience, good bookshelfs are few and far between and when you find a "good" one they are expensive... Now if you were buying Ascend sierras then yes they can sound better than a $100 tower, but they are almost $900...

I use 340's for my front sound stage and they are technically bookshelfs, {large but still considered bookshelfs} and IMO they are one of the exceptions to the rule... I couldnt find a tower that sounded as good for twice the price..

 

[Steve81]

The cheapest bookshelf I would buy is the Ascend 200 which is very good, but for a large room I wouldnt think they would be a perfect fit... at 300+ a pair, there would be better sounding towers available...

Curiously enough, I did have Ascend in mind, and had originally thought the 200s would be a good fit; the OP's room isn't tiny at 17x15, but it's not huge either and I'm expecting that he's not going to be pushing the volume hard enough to really drive the 200's out of their comfort zone. On second look though, he could also swing:

3 CBM-170s, 2 HTM-200s - $806 Shipped
Hsu STF-2 - $362 Shipped
Denon 1712- $262
-------------------
$1430

Those 170s can most certainly swing some pretty serious output when coupled with the Hsu, certainly more than he can get away with in an apartment.


The irony of it all is that I'm recommending this when I'm using towers with dual 8" drivers up front and towers with dual 5.25" drivers on the surrounds. I'll admit that I've not got all my marbles when it comes to audio though.

 

[ImcLoud]

Curiously enough, I did have Ascend in mind, and had originally thought the 200s would be a good fit; the OP's room isn't tiny at 17x15, but it's not huge either and I'm expecting that he's not going to be pushing the volume hard enough to really drive the 200's out of their comfort zone. On second look though, he could also swing:

3 CBM-170s, 2 HTM-200s - $806 Shipped
Hsu STF-2 - $362 Shipped
Denon 1712- $262
-------------------
$1430

Those 170s can most certainly swing some pretty serious output when coupled with the Hsu, certainly more than he can get away with in an apartment.


The irony of it all is that I'm recommending this when I'm using towers with dual 8" drivers up front and towers with dual 5.25" drivers on the surrounds. I'll admit that I've not got all my marbles when it comes to audio though.

That would work... I like my 170's, I power them with a minix 50x2 and you cant turn it all the way up with out getting uncomfortable..

 

[Steve81]

That would work... I like my 170's, I power them with a minix 50x2 and you cant turn it all the way up with out getting uncomfortable..

Much like I said about Hsu, I recommend Ascend because they build well engineered products at every price point. Even the entry level HTM-200 has nothing to apologize for with its performance. As far as the 170s:

SoundStage! Measurements - Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Loudspeakers (3/2003)

They can competently put out 95dB (+/- a couple dB) of output at 2 meters in an anechoic chamber without serious compression from 80Hz on up. That's pretty darned loud by just about any measure.

 

[ahblaza]

Well, if you can not pick up a difference in sound, between the
series 2 and series 1 speakers > then let me know - then I will
send you a ear-wax removal kit.

Already picked one up at Rite Aid pharmacy with the bulb syringe for flushing the excess wax out, preparing for the 52's arrival. Saved a bundle with the Wellness card.

 

[yonith]

Part of my problem is that I'm a computer guy, and I'm used to being able to compare measurable benchmarks when comparing computer parts. It seems like a lot of this audio stuff is based off of just hearing it. Is the soundstage stuff that Steve81 posted the method of how you guys are able to judge speakers are good, or have promise, without actually hearing them?

 

[Steve81]

It seems like a lot of this audio stuff is based off of just hearing it. Is the soundstage stuff that Steve81 posted the method of how you guys are able to judge speakers are good, or have promise, without actually hearing them?

There's a fun topic

To be clear, a small battery of measurements such as what Soundstage or Stereophile delivers cannot hope to give you a full picture of how a device as complicated as a speaker will perform, particularly once you introduce it into your room. Further, measurements cannot tell you right off the bat what you will prefer. Speakers are imperfect tools at best, and different engineers will have different priorities and even entirely different theories for what a speaker should fundamentally be doing: clearly the people behind the B&O Beolab 5 had a different concept in mind than the people behind the Tekton OB4.5. The only way to know what you prefer and what aspects of performance are important to you is to listen to a broad swath of speakers.

Moving further down the rabbit hole, what really just throws things for a loop is standards, or lack thereof. In the movie industry, you've got a body like THX which at least attempts to make what is heard in the studio to be what is heard in the movie theater to be what is heard in the home theater. In the music world...you've got...diddly. It seems (and would be logical) that more than a few engineers mix recordings based on what they expect most of their users to be listening on. If that happens to be ear buds on an iPod, or a stock car stereo, well......

To get back on track though: measurements do have some value. In the case of the Ascend's measurements, you can see that they deliver a flat frequency response, good off axis dispersion, and reasonable levels of clean output without being too demanding of a partnering amplifier. Whether any of that is good or bad to you depends on your room, what you prefer to hear, and what you're listening to.

 

[zieglj01]

Part of my problem is that I'm a computer guy, and I'm used to being able to compare measurable benchmarks when comparing computer parts. It seems like a lot of this audio stuff is based off of just hearing it. Is the soundstage stuff that Steve81 posted the method of how you guys are able to judge speakers are good, or have promise, without actually hearing them?

It still comes down to preference. Measurements do not
guarantee the overall resolution for detail and definition.
Some speakers that measure good >> can stiil fall short
in the overall presentation, for imaging and soundstaging.

Room placement will also play an important part.

 

[j_garcia]

Part of my problem is that I'm a computer guy, and I'm used to being able to compare measurable benchmarks when comparing computer parts. It seems like a lot of this audio stuff is based off of just hearing it. Is the soundstage stuff that Steve81 posted the method of how you guys are able to judge speakers are good, or have promise, without actually hearing them?

Unfortunately, that is correct. EVERY speaker sounds different, so without hearing them, you can't really decide what is right for you based on specs. Specs tell you a lot, but can't tell you how the speaker truly sounds. Sort of like buying shoes online - unless you've worn the same shoe, it is hard to tell if you are going to like it by looking at pictures.

 

[yonith]

Despite all the recommendations for the Pioneers, I've narrowed down to two options:
(better speakers vs better sub)

front: Infinity Primus P163 $170----
center: Infinity Primus PC351 $200--$576 shipped from infinity
rear: Infinity Primus P163 $170-----
sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 $612 shipped from HSU
receiver: Denon 1912 $313 shipped from A4L
total: $1501


front: Ascend CBM-170 ----
center: Ascend CBM-170 --$806 shipped from ascend
rear: Ascend HTM-200 -----
sub: HSU STF-2 or Klipsch RW-12d $362 shipped
receiver: Denon 1912 $313 shipped from A4L
total: $1481

I'm going to an audio shop tomorrow in hopes they have the Infinity's to listen to.

 

[jonnythan]

Good options, but I would recommend the 1712 over the 1912 because it has MultEQ XT instead of the 1912's MultEQ.

Both of those setups are pretty awesome though. I'd get the Ascend setup with the 1712 and hold off for the VTF-2 over the STF-2.

 

[Steve81]

I'm going to an audio shop tomorrow in hopes they have the Infinity's to listen to.

If you haven't already, it would be worthwhile to hit the Ascend forums and see if someone who lives nearby would let you listen to their speakers.

As jonnythan said though: both are awesome setups.

 

[j_garcia]

The Infinitys are good speakers, but I can pretty much tell you between those two, the Ascends are better; and I own a pair of P163s.

Between the two setups though, I'd opt for the Infinitys and the VTF-2 over the STF-2 if you have to compromise somewhere, because the VTF-2 is a better sub.

 

[yonith]

So W.A.F. played into this one, but it looks like the kind gentleman at Best Buy was able to convince her that the Pioneers are the way to go and thus I will be going with that speaker selection. He did however suggest I NOT get the HSU VTF-2 (it would drown out the speakers and costs too much) and just get 2 of the SW-8MK2 instead. Thoughts?!