Is this an apdapter?

  • Thread starter cameron paterson
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
The 4 Crown amps are powering subs and theCrown amps are stacked on top of each other on a wooden entertainment center.. The Parasound Halo A21 amp is sitting on a wood stand. So I can get shocked by just touching my amps?

And is humming bad for the subs and speakers?
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The 4 Crown amps are stacked on top of each other on a wooden entertainment center.. The Parasound Halo A21 amp is sitting on a wood stand. So I can get shocked by just touching my amps?

And is humming bad for the subs and speakers?
I will answer you at length later. I have to go and to Canon Falls right now to get my blood calcium checked to monitor my Calcitriol following major surgery three weeks ago.

But in essence you have a complex system. The design of such systems starts with a carefully laid out grounding plan. That is known as the ground plane, and it must be designed correctly and built obsessionally.

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and the BBC have published extensively about it.

So clearly your ground plane is not properly designed and installed, for your complex system.

To answer your question can you get shocked from not following proper practice, the answer to that is YES!

I will explain more later. In the meantime I would encourage you to research ground loops and how to avoid them.

My late father had an excellent phrase for your approach. He called it: - "Willing the ends, but not the means."
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Hope your post surgery goes well! Can I get an answer to my question about whether humming can hurt a sub or speaker? As you turn up the volume you can't hear the humming but can it still ruin your sub or speaker?
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I just don't want to get shocked! Does the surge protector keep me from getting shocked if the adapter is plugged into the surge protector? Can the chassis of the amp shock me while turning on or off the amp?
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Sooner or later turning on my Crown amp could kill me with the adapter plugged in?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Sooner or later turning on my Crown amp could kill me with the adapter plugged in?
You're asking people to be liable after clearly explaining to you the potential dangers, I wouldn't expect anymore then that.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Sooner or later turning on my Crown amp could kill me with the adapter plugged in?
The point is that using that cheater plug, it is NOT an adapter, is just bad and unsafe engineering.

The issue you have having is stemming from having multiple grounds with one or more at a different potential. When this occurs you have have current circulating in the grounding system of your installation. This is what creates the hum and why it is called a ground loop.

You have posted limited to no information about your system so I can't solve you problem until you map out every connection.

I should point out that cable and Ethernet connections present frequent and difficult problems due to installers not following code and not grounding their systems to your panel at entry as required by code.

Now the principle of avoiding ground loops is to have one ground in the system to which everything is bonded.

Every system needs a reliable ground back to the panel.

Now you stated that your amps are in wood. I should state that professional metal racks are worth the money, as equipment grounds can be bonded securely to metal racks. I did not do this in my previous house and that caused me a lot of extra work constructing a reliable ground plane. In the two pictures below, you can see extensive ground plane I had to build with copper to get everything quiet. I have to stress that heavy gauge is the order of the day, as there can be no significant resistance between grounding points.





In this house, I designed the ground plane for the house. In the AV room chase one of the two main panels is located.

I have three 19" pro metal racks. These are all bonded with massive braided copper cables. The racks are bonded back to the panel with stout copper braid.

I was present when the Comcast techs came to install the cable TV and Internet. The tech that came had only just started, so that encounter turned into a professorial teaching session.

The bottom line is that following code and using sound engineering procedures works. Just winging it like you have, does not.

The owner of a long time Twin Cities B & M audio stores was here a couple of weeks ago. After listening and also demonstrating the museum end of the studio, he asked: -"How did you get everything so quiet?" He noted that no matter what I demonstrated there was zero hum or buzz. I explained that it was the result of planning and sound engineering practice.

Lastly no one on these forums who wants to stay in good standing is going to countenance you not following code or engaging in unsound and potentially dangerous practice. So no matter what it takes, you need to take the high road and do it right. It will take time, effort and thought. Do not look for slap dash short cuts.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Ok so I plugged my Parasound Halo A21 amp that was making humming noise to my DIYSG 1099's into a single surge protector with nothing else plugged into the surge protector. It hummed loudly. Added the adapter and the hum is gone. Whats going on?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Would this help anything?:

No!

I told you what you have to do. There are no short cuts.

What I need to know is if those amps hum with the inputs disconnected. In other words just the IEC cable and the speakers connected. That is where we need to start, and I don't care if you have to do cartwheels and turn summersaults to disconnect the inputs.

I will help you, but I'm now back in full professorial mode.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Ok so I plugged my Parasound Halo A21 amp that was making humming noise to my DIYSG 1099's into a single surge protector with nothing else plugged into the surge protector. It hummed loudly. Added the adapter and the hum is gone. Whats going on?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ok so I plugged my Parasound Halo A21 amp that was making humming noise to my DIYSG 1099's into a single surge protector with nothing else plugged into the surge protector. It hummed loudly. Added the adapter and the hum is gone. Whats going on?
OK, that is progress. What is that DIYSG? Is that an active sub with a grounded plug? If the sub is passive, then you get rid of the surge protector to test. What I need to be certain of is that there is no other ground other then the IEC cord to the Parasound. There must be only one ground, and that must be directly to the Parasound Halo 21 and nothing else. Nothing must be connected to the inputs of the Parasound amp.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
DIYSG 1099's are my front speakers not a sub. All 4 of my subs are making hum as well. Could I use 4 of these?:
Would these work with a mini dsp which I have?

 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
DIYSG 1099's are my front speakers not a sub. All 4 of my subs are making hum as well. Could I use 4 of these?:
Would these work with a mini dsp which I have?

Other members have used them with negative results. The way to solve you problem is to go though the basics. Once we isolate your ground loop, or loops, your problem will be over. It never fails. You just have to follow the grounding rules. We have had this problem with regularity and to my recollection have solved them all.

You must be very specific in the equipment you have connected. If you have a sub with a ground connection, disconnect it now and see if the hum goes away.

It would really help if you did some reading on ground loops.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Ok so I plugged my Parasound Halo A21 amp that was making humming noise to my DIYSG 1099's into a single surge protector with nothing else plugged into the surge protector. It hummed loudly. Added the adapter and the hum is gone. Whats going on?
Was there a cable connected from your AVR or preamp to your amp when you did this or just the amp and the speaker cable to the speaker??
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The surge protector says "protected" on it. The light that says "not grounded" is off. With the adapter plugged into it.
You need to read this thread again. When you lift the ground, the chassis becomes electrically hot, just like the + wire on a switch or light socket. It may not have the full 120VAC on it, but if you touch the metal chassis with one hand and something that's well grounded with the other, you'll realize that you are awake.

Old electronics didn't use a grounded cord and a good example of why this changed has to do with guitar amplifiers like the 1950s Fender models. They had a Ground switch that was used to reverse the power wires. It was common for guitar/bass players to be zapped when they would touch the mic while they were holding their guitar and touching the metal parts. I saw a friend zap his lips when he touched them to the mic when he used my amplifier one night and he never missed a beat- just said "Whoa!", reached behind himself and flipped the switch.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
TLS Guy please excuse my ignorance but what is a ground connection on a sub? How do I disconnect the ground as well?
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Doesn't the adapter work to disconnect the ground?
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
EverettT:

The avr was hooked up to the Parasound amp with speaker wire to speakers. What does unhooking the amp from the avr do? I will try it now.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
TLS Guy please excuse my ignorance but what is a ground connection on a sub? How do I disconnect the ground as well?
The ground would be the grounding pin, do not lift that. The other would be the RCA shield. But I want the sub to be unplugged, as I suspect that is the ground loop. If you Parasound has a three pin plug and your sub has a three pin plug, and they are plugged into different receptacles, then that is probably your ground loop is there is a resistance in the ground between those receptacles.

I just want the Parasound connected to your right and left speakers, and nothing else except the IEC cord going directly to a wall receptacle. Does it then hum? Yes or no.
 
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