Is there really a difference?

P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I wish I could audition them side by side. I do use a sub, although not a great one. I'm using a Polk PSW10. It does seem to compliment the Focal
Are your 1028 in a large room and you sit far away, like 4 meters or more?

Did I mention I try driving my with a 5 W amp and they sounded fine? Those speakers are relatively easy to drive compared to my other speakers.
 
B

Bob257

Audiophyte
Actually the room is shaped like ZZ top key. I sit about 7 feet away from the speakers and listen at low to medium volume (<80 db).
 
O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
"I wish I could audition them side by side"

Do you have a McIntosh dealer close by? If you do, bring your Yamaha receiver with you and ask them.

It's not the most scientifically accurate way to compare amps, but you can always ask them for a sighted evaluation between the two.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Actually the room is shaped like ZZ top key. I sit about 7 feet away from the speakers and listen at low to medium volume (<80 db).
Then a good 5 W amp should do it, but a 100 W amp should be all you need. The Mc will sound better if you can see it, or you think it is the one doing the work lol..
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
I wish I could audition them side by side. I do use a sub, although not a great one. I'm using a Polk PSW10. It does seem to compliment the Focal
There's your opportunity for an audible sound quality upgrade. Get a nice sub from SVS. I'm willing to bet that one of their upper models will play cleaner than that PSW10. Not saying you have to get a monster, that depends on how big your room is. It's not about more bass, but cleaner bass. Distortion in bass has a way permeating through the whole range in a way you don't notice until it's gone. I was pretty blown away how much better my whole system sounded after I upgraded my subs. Everything sounded much cleaner.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Did I mention I try driving my with a 5 W amp and they sounded fine?
The ACA? I would think that that amp being single ended pure class A with high output impedance and distortion has a greater chance of having an audible sound signature than the OP's McIntosh or "perfect" Hegel mentioned up thread. (Just curious, having also built the ACA and several tube amps.)

@Irvrobinson FWIW it's trivially easy to make a linear, low distortion tube line stage. I highly doubt McIntosh intentionally baked in any aberrant behavior into their tubed pre-amp stage, but maybe they did.

To the OP, I agree with Irv and Peng regarding the potential benefit from upgrading IF your listening habits and room have you approaching or exceeding the power limits of your current kit (doubtful based on your responses). Consider Pogre's suggestion as an alternate path for upgrades.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
The ACA? I would think that that amp being single ended pure class A with high output impedance and distortion has a greater chance of having an audible sound signature than the OP's McIntosh or "perfect" Hegel mentioned up thread. (Just curious, having also built the ACA and several tube amps.)

@Irvrobinson FWIW it's trivially easy to make a linear, low distortion tube line stage. I highly doubt McIntosh intentionally baked in any aberrant behavior into their tubed pre-amp stage, but maybe they did.

To the OP, I agree with Irv and Peng regarding the potential benefit from upgrading IF your listening habits and room have you approaching or exceeding the power limits of your current kit (doubtful based on your responses). Consider Pogre's suggestion as an alternate path for upgrades.
It's the ACA, with the larger PS so I must be getting 5 W at 1% THD, or 7 W at higher THD. I kept the wires really short and thick.

With the LS50, the little guy did show its signature but not with the 1028 Be, sitting 9 ft at 70 dB average spl helped too. It was just for fun, I normally used the 4BSST, now the SM-7 (sold the Bryston).
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
@Irvrobinson FWIW it's trivially easy to make a linear, low distortion tube line stage. I highly doubt McIntosh intentionally baked in any aberrant behavior into their tubed pre-amp stage, but maybe they did.
As I mentioned in post #5, I also think McIntosh tube designs are pretty good, and I doubt there will be an audible difference. It is possible that there "could" be a perceptible difference in very deep bass response, since McIntosh tube pre-amps are typically -3db@15Hz, but I'm really reaching here. I also have to confess I'm well-known tube hater, and I think using them in any audio design is for style and not for performance of any kind.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
... well given the topology of the Mac vs the Yammie it's possible you would. It would be best if you could audition side by side.
An interesting read:

"Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics are Acoustically Transparent", Rich, David and Aczel, Peter, 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053.

they compared different topology.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I'm still lusting after a McIntosh for some reason. I have the Yamaha a -s801 that produces 100 watts/channel driving my Focal 1028be speakers. The amps I'm considering are the MA-252 and the MA-352. The first puts out the same 100 watts and the second puts out 200 watts/channel. The second has one more analog input and equalization controls plus the famous blue VU meters. My listening is usually low to mid level and classic rock and jazz. Would I benefit from spending twice as much for the 200 watts over the 100? Would it really be different from the Yamaha?
Choosing an one amp over another based solely on wattage is a very expensive decision.

It definitely make the most sense to look at the lowest impedance your speakers dip to and choose an amp that is stable below that dip!

Amps will try to drive whatever impedance your speakers throw at them and usually that’s when SQ suffers and electrical components!

When you purchase a speaker it has a limit for output and SQ. That output and SQ follows the speaker design regardless of the room you use it in.

That’s not to say a speaker cannot be to small or to large for the volume of the room it gets used in.

It is not the fault of the speaker when we use it in a room that is too large or possibly to small it’s the fault of the user!

When choosing an amp we ultimately want to drive a speaker to a specific volume we like. Wattage is important but into what stable load can the amp deliver those watts is more important.

Many “no frills” amplifiers will provide the goods that most speakers need to reach there potential even though we generally don’t tests that potential in our listening rooms.

Room gain itself re-enforces the SPL to a point that holds most people back on the volume knob well before finding the capabilities of their speakers.

Of course there are always unwise choices made by people aware of the negative consequences.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
There's your opportunity for an audible sound quality upgrade. Get a nice sub from SVS. I'm willing to bet that one of their upper models will play cleaner than that PSW10. Not saying you have to get a monster, that depends on how big your room is. It's not about more bass, but cleaner bass. Distortion in bass has a way permeating through the whole range in a way you don't notice until it's gone. I was pretty blown away how much better my whole system sounded after I upgraded my subs. Everything sounded much cleaner.
This...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Well I try to get along with everybody, whether we agree or disagree. And they or you at times, may not agree with some of my ideas as you say. I am in no way the worlds expert, nor do I claim to be. I do have some what more experiences than a lot of people when it comes to getting an idea of how things in the world really work. I don't need any news source be it the left or the right, to try and convince me one way or the other of the agenda they are trying to push. In my years in the Corps, I have had the opportunity to travel all over the world. I have seen many things that many would not believe or even think possible. So I am very grateful for that. And I should know better to let someone on the internet get me riled up, but unfortunately I am only human and have my flaws to.

I do understand what your speaking of when referring to frequency response, reflections, bass management, timing, phase and all that Jazz( LOL) . In the end all that should count and matter is how it sounds in the end. Audio doesn't and shouldn't always be about the specs and numbers game. End the end all that should matter is how that product sounds and does it please your ears. That's why I hate when people start comparing speakers and so forth, saying one sounds better than the other. I only care about what sounds good to me, not the other guy. It's my cash and enjoyment that concern me. If someone finds my experience or opinions useless, well good for them. All I can do is give my opinion. And as with anyone else's opinion, they should all be taken with a grain of salt. When it comes to the audio experience, no one's personal opinion should take precedence over another's. It's the person buying and listen who owe it to themselves, to make their own judgement.
Yeah, I'll leave your "beliefs" on a couple things go, just talking about your claims about amps having specific deficiencies in lower, mid and upper frequency response without any actual evidence other than your experience....which could be more explained by speakers and room than amp.....we tend to stick to provable claims here, not the "tighter bass, chocolately midrange and twinkling highs" kinda descriptions. If those work for you and your audio dealers, great.
 

Latest posts


newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top