Is it worth saving up for the B&W 805 D3?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with bookshelf speakers. Most people would be utterly happy with a pair of KEF Reference 201/2 + subwoofers (RBH, Funk, SVS, etc.).

Same with the 805D or other nice bookshelf speakers.

But it simply comes down to personal preference, nothing more than that.

In terms of towers, there are just so many to choose from (like there are with bookshelf).

KEF, Revel, RBH, B&W, NHT, Salk, Philharmonic, Ascend...there are so many.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The more I read and think about it I'm starting to lean towards other brands and tower speakers...

To be honest, I don't feel comfortable spending $6,000 on a pair of bookshelf speakers that require additional $1,000 worth of stands, they look beautiful with the original stands but it feels like wasted $.

So like I mentioned before I'm open for different brands and used market.

One of my top choices is Revel Performa3 F208
Other considerations: KEF R900

What do you guys think?

You already know that there are just too many different opinions. Some people like B&W, some people don't like B&W.

The ONLY opinion that matters is YOUR opinion. Compare the B&W CM10 or other B&W towers to KEF, Revel, RBH, or any other towers you can FIND locally.

If the B&W towers sound great to you, then buy them. Don't completely rule out B&W CM towers or ANY speaker just because some people disagree.

This may help tip the scale, but generally speaking, B&W speakers won't measure as well as other speakers in terms of on-axis and off-axis frequency response. For example, the $600 Infinity Primus P362 towers had better on-axis and off-axis measurements than the $25,000 B&W 800D.

Of course, I don't think the P362 sound as good as the B&W speakers. Maybe it's bias, maybe not.

Thus, some people don't care about speaker measurements - they only care about how the speakers sound to them.

We all have different speakers for a good reason - we all differ in our preferences and opinions.

 

[<eargiant]

You already know that there are just too many different opinions. Some people like B&W, some people don't like B&W.

The ONLY opinion that matters is YOUR opinion. Compare the B&W CM10 or other B&W towers to KEF, Revel, RBH, or any other towers you can FIND locally.

If the B&W towers sound great to you, then buy them. Don't completely rule out B&W CM towers or ANY speaker just because some people disagree.

This may help tip the scale, but generally speaking, B&W speakers won't measure as well as other speakers in terms of on-axis and off-axis frequency response. For example, the $600 Infinity Primus P362 towers had better on-axis and off-axis measurements than the $25,000 B&W 800D.

Of course, I don't think the P362 sound as good as the B&W speakers. Maybe it's bias, maybe not.

Thus, some people don't care about speaker measurements - they only care about how the speakers sound to them.

We all have different speakers for a good reason - we all differ in our preferences and opinions.

I'll just add that after having heard scores of speakers throughout the years with picture perfect measurements one should be aware that measurements don't always tell you about things like cabinet resonances, port chuffing and a slew of other nasty little things that are easily audible and arise in real world listening situations.

 

[PENG]

I'll just add that after having heard scores of speakers throughout the years with picture perfect measurements one should be aware that measurements don't always tell you about things like cabinet resonances, port chuffing and a slew of other nasty little things that are easily audible and arise in real world listening situations.

I think if you can hear it, a good mic can too.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'll just add that after having heard scores of speakers throughout the years with picture perfect measurements one should be aware that measurements don't always tell you about things like cabinet resonances, port chuffing and a slew of other nasty little things that are easily audible and arise in real world listening situations.

A good case in point is B&W's latest 800D3 compared with the D2. Measurement-wise they are more similar than different but in reality they sound quite different. As usual the devil is in the measurement detail, and it needs to be said that an on-axis measurement reflects just a thin slice of space around a 3D axis that may or may not be the manufacturers designed listening axis. It's why you often see the same speaker with different looking measurements from different independent sources.

 

[<eargiant]

I think if you can hear it, a good mic can too.

I used to think that too. Problem is, how do you know which tiny little wiggle on a flat "looking" line is the port chuff and which one is the resonance (not to mention behavior at various SPL levels)? I've been fooled by beautiful lines before.

I can't prove this to you in a forum response but I can prove it to you in person. No doubt.

 

[PENG]

I used to think that too. Problem is, how do you know which tiny little wiggle on a flat "looking" line is the port chuff and which one is the resonance (not to mention behavior at various SPL levels)? I've been fooled by beautiful lines before.

I can't prove this to you in a forum response but I can prove it to you in person. No doubt.

Great point, and good idea about proving it.... I can tell you every little adjustments I ever made were picked up by my $75 Umik-1 and REW. I am confident, for example, that if I do something to create a barely audible port chuffing, I will see it in a REW plot.

So to answer you question, I will know by comparing the before and after plots. Now that's only if I am right about what I am saying and thinking, and only if any such effect is audible. If it is not audible, then it won't bother me even if the graphs show it. Take a look of any speakers frequency responses and distortions and compared that to any decent amps, you will understand my point, even if we agree to disagree.

Funny you mentioned proving it in person, I always thought it would be great if some of the audioholics on this forum can get together some day and spend a day or two doing that kind of things.

 

[<eargiant]

Great point, and good idea about proving it.... I can tell you every little adjustments I ever made were picked up by my $75 Umik-1 and REW. I am confident, for example, that if I do something to create a barely audible port chuffing, I will see it in a REW plot.

So to answer you question, I will know by comparing the before and after plots. Now that's only if I am right about what I am saying and thinking, and only if any such effect is audible. If it is not audible, then it won't bother me even if the graphs show it. Take a look of any speakers frequency responses and distortions and compared that to any decent amps, you will understand my point, even if we agree to disagree.

Funny you mentioned proving it in person, I always thought it would be great if some of the audioholics on this forum can get together some day and spend a day or two doing that kind of things.

Sure, I understand what you're saying but the only issue is that when we look at a manufacturers (or independent source) graph we're only looking at one graph (no comparison) and in many cases it looks wonderful.

It's only when you get the speakers home that you can hear the anomalies that they may exhibit. At that point I don't need a mic or software to detect it, my ears already did.

I remember one time I had a pair of beautifully "flat" (almost perfect) speakers in here and I was putting them through the paces. When playing one of my usual "test" songs I heard a sound I had never heard in that recording coming from the right side of the room. It was so faint and brief that I thought it was part of the recording. It was almost as if the sound was picked-up in the studio while recording (I love recordings that have real room sounds in them- creaks, clicks, etc). Initially I thought, wow these speakers are incredibly resolving. I've never heard that before on any other set-up. How did I miss it?

I referred back to other systems and even headphones to see how I had missed that sound in the past but I couldn't hear it. I went back to the speakers in question and there was that slight "studio" sound again. I had to figure this out, and finally did. Turns out it was a very faint cabinet resonance unlike any I'd ever heard. On this recording which had several standing bass plucks only one pluck was just right to create the culprit. The resonance really did sound like a noise that was coming from deep to the right of the recording space. Go figure.

Yup, it would be cool for a group to get together, measure those speakers and marvel at their perfect graph and then play that song so they could all hear the "studio" sound that had me dumbfounded for a short while.

 

[2channel lover]

Hello everybody,

So here is my dilemma, I was set to get the CM10 S2's. The sales man offered me to listen to the 800 series (805 D3)... and that's where my dilemma started...
Do you guys think it's worth waiting and saving? Or is it better to put the $2,000 towards new sub woofer or amp? (Currently I have HSU VTF-3 MK 3 and Denon 3808Ci)

In short, get the 805, but hear me out...the 800 series is a different animal from all other B&W speakers imo.

I own a pair of M804 speakers and they sounded incredible 20 yrs ago...today they still sound pretty good. The midrange advancement and especially the diamond tweeter in the new speakers are just better.

That said, I'm not sure I would buy D3s. I demoed the 804D3 a few weeks ago. Better, but not buy much imo over the D or D2. I came away thinking B&W has priced the 800 series is very good, but you can get comparable or better performance for less money.

You can get a pair of 805D for half the price on ebay and still upgrade your subs if you want.