is it worth it? "diffraction be gone" pads?

[washburn]

seems pretty pricey for a pair of wool pads cut to size, but i am wondering if it does make a worthwhile difference ..
I will be acquiring a pair of Reference-1 monitors soon, as they have a reputation of being "unruly" with bad recordings...

is there anyone here that has used DBG and found it a worthwhile tweak?
some info:
http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html
http://www.skiingninja.com/Diffraction-Be-Gone-p/dbg.htm

 

[Nuance AH]

seems pretty pricey for a pair of wool pads cut to size, but i am wondering if it does make a worthwhile difference ..
I will be acquiring a pair of Reference-1 monitors soon, as they have a reputation of being "unruly" with bad recordings...

is there anyone here that has used DBG and found it a worthwhile tweak?
some info:
http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html
http://www.skiingninja.com/Diffraction-Be-Gone-p/dbg.htm

Only you can decide that. Everyone's situation will be different. I tried a pair and they did not improve SQ, but YMMV.

 

[highfigh]

seems pretty pricey for a pair of wool pads cut to size, but i am wondering if it does make a worthwhile difference ..
I will be acquiring a pair of Reference-1 monitors soon, as they have a reputation of being "unruly" with bad recordings...

is there anyone here that has used DBG and found it a worthwhile tweak?
some info:
http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html
http://www.skiingninja.com/Diffraction-Be-Gone-p/dbg.htm

I'm not sure why "compressed wool felt" is so much better than other carpet padding but that seems kind of pricey.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Until/unless they have been independently tested, i.e. a set of frequency response readings, on and off-axis, I personally wouldn't try it. What's so "acoustical" about wool? I smell snake oil...

 

[washburn]

i thought that ninja link did have some frequency readings; but i might be wrong.

 

[Swerd]

All speaker cabinet edges, especially the side edges, interact with sound from a tweeter. These edges act as additional point sources for sound which can arrive at the listener out of phase with the sound from the tweeter itself. This varies with the frequency of the sound and the width of the cabinet. This is usually spoken of as diffraction. This causes unevenness in the sound due to addition (peaks) or cancellation (valleys).

The worst diffraction effects appear at a relatively low frequency for most tweeters, and are easily heard. They can be easily fixed with a properly designed crossover.

For example, see the two frequency response curves, which compare the G2 tweeter in a Salk HT-3 3-way speaker with (Filtered) and without (Unfiltered) the mid-tweeter crossover.

You can see a large valley caused by cabinet diffraction between 2 and 4 kHz in the Unfiltered frequency response curve. The crossover rolls-off the tweeter response below 4 kHz, and bypasses this problem. All tweeter-cabinet combinations suffer from this, and it is up to the crossover designer to deal with it.

In addition to that big problem, edge diffraction is said to cause the much smaller effects at higher frequencies – see the “sawtooth” pattern between 5-10 kHz in both examples. This can be minimized but not eliminated by such cabinet treatments as rounded-over edges, non-parallel cabinet edges, off-center tweeter location, or attaching wool felt to the front. For your information, in the examples shown, the HT-3 speaker cabinet has edges that are rounded-over and the side edges are not parallel.

It is not understood if these treatments have any noticeable audible effect. At best, it would be very small. So, I don't think those prices for the wool felt are worth it.

 

[Rickster71]

If it's something you'd like to experiment with; go to the home depot. They sell felt pads with adhesive backing. $5 to $10 enough for two speakers.
Try temporarily adding it to one tweeter and do a listening test in mono and see if you notice any difference, and if it's a difference you like.

 

[jimdgoulding]

Hi, fellas, and ladies if there be any. A couple things:

Carpet padding is likely composed of synthetic material if any organic wool at all. How does that work?

Neoprene is made from used tires. It's what wet suits are made from. It's bouyant, for Christ sakes. How does that work?

It takes time and material to make these things. Organic wool is the material I use courtesy of Peruvian sheep, it just so happens, so that spreading waveforms may be converted to heat and absorbed, not guided or whatever the former does or doesn't do.

I use a die to cut the hole with a press and the exterior to specs.

And I live out from town. Heck, it's a gallon of gas round trip to the post office!

I offer with a 30 day trial period in case you listen to a lot ambient music or are otherwise dissatisfied.

Some user comments using a variety of speakers and a pic can be see at my website. 2008 TAS Golden Ear Award from Robt. E. Greene, technical editor

And here's a comment from an enthusiatic customer I'm rather fond of:

"Jim, after a week of use on the VR1s and VR4JRs I'm convinced these pads are not going back. I really like what they do each of my systems. Overall the impact of the pads seems to be to create sharper transients, more detailed imaging and improved image focus and significantly truer-sounding instrument timber. The general impression is for instruments and vocals to have more of a live performance sound with the sound becoming freed of the speaker boxes. And finally, while nothing actually sounded harsh before the pads, with the pads there seems to be a more effortless, natural-sounding presentation of the music - as though there was some harshness I wasn't aware of that is now gone. It feels like I'm finally hearing what my system is capable of, what I've expected with every other upgrade and never found , and finally hear. Thanks for a giving me the sound I've been looking for.

Next week, RMAF is in town and I was looking forward to attending in order to hear a few speakers I've been interested in. But with these improvements, and the dreadful state of the economy, I can't imagine I'm going to hear anything that can beat what I now have with your pads, without paying what my entire system costs just for speakers. I think you just helped me get off of the upgrade bandwagon.

Two nghts ago I had a friend over, a professional musician (bassist), and he was amazed at the realism my system now produces. Said it was the closest he'd ever heard a home system produce what sounds like a live venue. Joe G."

It's the improved time and space clarity of the recording, and I got a ton of them, sans diffraction effects that's so beguiling. And a little tonal accuracy can't hurt. It takes a pad sized to your speakers to do the whole job and organic wool, please.

Ya'll be cool. Uncle Jim

 

[ski2xblack]

...organic wool, please.

Organic? You should insist on GMO franken-wool only, as it's probably much better than that hippie natural stuff.

 

[markw]

Does he breeed his own sheep?

 

[jimdgoulding]

Interesting comments, those. Does your mama know you're playing on the computer again? Natural wool. That better?

 

[ski2xblack]

Interesting comments, those. Does your mama know you're playing on the computer again? Natural wool. That better?

Sorry, forgot to use the sarcasm tag to let you know it was a joke...I wasn't dissing your products' efficacy, just so you know. Out of politeness to a new member I did not comment on the value of your products, but since you're so trollish, I think I will.

If the OP wants to apply felt pads to reduce diffraction, do it, but do it yourself, and cut this doofus exploiter-of-audiophools out of the equation. Hobby Lobby sells natural wool felt with adhesive backing, just like Uncle Bob uses, only for much, much less.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, guy.

 

[markw]

Let's be honest, shall we?

Your first post here is to revive a two-year old dormant thread purely to plug one of your own products. Is that a sign of class or what? You really didn't think that would escape notice, did you?

Now, if you want pay to advertise here and become a "real" sponsor, then perhaps you might have been met with a bit more respect. Would you like a link to talk to the admins about that, or do you prefer to simply freeload and advertise your snake oil?

After all, I could have said "breed with your own sheep", but I was a gentleman.

 

[jimdgoulding]

Boy, you bum easily, don't you. Poor thing. Geez, that's a vitriolic response. So, by your definition, a maker of something that a person can make for themselves is an exploiter of audiophools? Boy, that includes a lot of designer/manufacturers and lot of listeners that would dispute being included in that statement. As would a few reviewers.

BTW, never said a person couldn't make it for themselves. My claim is simply that I make the most effective 'product' of its kind ever to appear in the market.

Thus far, I haven't been able to find your reference on Hobby Lobby, but I'd like to. So may others. Post a link for them if not for me why don't you.

 

[jimdgoulding]

Mark, that's true. I'm just finding out about Audioholics or I would have joined the discussion and the forum two years ago. I registered just last night. I think I can contribute something of value to someone. I'm a long time listerner, collector, and patron of live music. I might be a little old school, however. I love classical music, have a preference for vinyl playback and tubes. And Jazz! Everyplace in the world I've visited I never missed a chance to hit some clubs.

Snake oil? Surely you don't believe that. Here's a link to diffraction in action (those red and green circles are not a part of any recording you or I own- they are late arriving out of time and phase): http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/images/diffdem.gif

 

[markw]

"Organic wool is the material I use courtesy of Peruvian sheep"

I'd like to see the testing you used to arrive at the conclusion that these are the best possibe material. ...or does it just make good sales copy for the gullible masses you target your advertising at?

 

[jcl]

The felt brought back some vague memories. Wasn't it a bit of a fad, maybe due to the Spica TC-50s? I did a google and found this write up :
Basel Audio Lab - MR's SPICA TC-50 Restoration

Felt certainly can change the sound of a speaker. For better or worse probably depends on the speaker and the listener.

 

[jimdgoulding]

I'm not targeting gullible people, mate. You have to be a little knowledgable to know that there is a problem and a that there is a fix. You think TAS was in collusion with me when Robt Greene awarded my product a Golden Ear Award. You think he's gullible. The wool itself I buy in linear yards from Peru. I figure its at least as good as what is available at Hobby Lobby. It's allegedly 92% pure.

 

[GranteedEV]

Diffraction is very real, and its audibility is not independant of SPL.

The problem is, you can't just "add-on" anything and always expect positive results.

 

[markw]

I'm not targeting gullible people, mate. You have to be a little knowledgable to know that there is a problem and a that there is a fix. You think TAS was in collusion with me when Robt Greene awarded my product a Golden Ear Award. You think he's gullible. The wool itself I buy in linear yards from Peru. I figure its at least as good as what is available at Hobby Lobby. It's allegedly 92% pure.

I don't question the reality of diffraction and what a little properly cut felt can do to minimize any harm from it. I do, however, question when someone recommends the use of some exotic materials over more commonly avalilable items that will, in most cases, provide the same audiable results. I also have the same attitude towards botique cables.

And, yes, a lot of this hobby runs on snob appeal.