Is Direct or Pure Direct Mode with Sub Possible for Denon 1911?

[Ears to you]

Hi guys,

I apologize for the very simplistic question, but I haven't been able to find a way to listen to music in 2.1 stereo in Direct or Pure Direct modes with my Denon 1911, no matter how many times I have tinkered with options and menus. Am I missing something, or is it just higher end Denon AVRs that can do this? Thank you very much for bearing with me on what might be my overlooking the obvious!

 

[j_garcia]

AFAIK, only certain ones can do it. One of the purposes of Pure Direct is to bypass bass management so you don't need to go into your settings and make changes...so I don't see why you would want to defeat something that is already a bypass.

 

[Ears to you]

AFAIK, only certain ones can do it. One of the purposes of Pure Direct is to bypass bass management so you don't need to go into your settings and make changes...so I don't see why you would want to defeat something that is already a bypass.

Just so that I could have basic, unprocessed front L/R stereo, since the Audyssey "Flat" setting does sound different than the Direct modes. Is the Audyssey "Bypass L/R" basically the same as Direct, except for the sub inclusion?

 

[j_garcia]

I don't have Audessey, so I can't comment on what that bypass does. What source are you running from? I know what you're after, but I think I've only seen a few receivers that allow the use of the sub as an option in Pure direct, and I don't recall which ones they were off the top of my head (since I didn't see why it would be of use). Basically for music, I just use analog via the multichannel input as that puts the processing at the source and should also bypass all processing in the AVR/Pre; using the source's bass management. That might give you what you're after.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi guys,

I apologize for the very simplistic question, but I haven't been able to find a way to listen to music in 2.1 stereo in Direct or Pure Direct modes with my Denon 1911, no matter how many times I have tinkered with options and menus. Am I missing something, or is it just higher end Denon AVRs that can do this? Thank you very much for bearing with me on what might be my overlooking the obvious!

Set speakers to small, XO 80Hz, Sub to Yes, Bass to Subwoofer + Main. This last part is key because Subwoofer THX (instead of Sub + Main) will not allow Subwoofer in Direct/PD mode.

 

[Ears to you]

I don't have Audessey, so I can't comment on what that bypass does. What source are you running from? I know what you're after, but I think I've only seen a few receivers that allow the use of the sub as an option in Pure direct, and I don't recall which ones they were off the top of my head (since I didn't see why it would be of use). Basically for music, I just use analog via the multichannel input as that puts the processing at the source and should also bypass all processing in the AVR/Pre; using the source's bass management. That might give you what you're after.

I am playing CDs from my Oppo 93 through HDMI only right now. I have been considering getting an integrated amp with HT Bypass, as well as a new AVR with pre outs that can simply handle the HT, which for me, is a distant second to the music listening I do.

 

[Ears to you]

Set speakers to small, XO 80Hz, Sub to Yes, Bass to Subwoofer + Main. This last part is key because Subwoofer THX (instead of Sub + Main) will not allow Subwoofer in Direct/PD mode.

I already had virtually all my settings as you suggest, but I cannot find the Subwoofer + Main setting. (You don't mean the LFE + Main setting in the Bass Setting submenu, in the SW Mode toggle between LFE and LFE + Main, do you?)

 

[j_garcia]

I am playing CDs from my Oppo 93 through HDMI only right now. I have been considering getting an integrated amp with HT Bypass, as well as a new AVR with pre outs that can simply handle the HT, which for me, is a distant second to the music listening I do.

Try using the main R&L + sub outs on the 93 to multichannel input on the AVR. Direct with HDMI doesn't do a whole lot IMO. I've tried it on my 105 and 83SE and don't hear much difference at all, but via analog, there's a definite improvement even before using Direct. I haven't heard the 93, but even my 83 was pretty good with analog audio before I upgraded it.

 

[Ears to you]

Try using the main R&L + sub outs on the 93 to multichannel input on the AVR. Direct with HDMI doesn't do a whole lot IMO. I've tried it on my 105 and 83SE and don't hear much difference at all, but via analog, there's a definite improvement even before using Direct. I haven't heard the 93, but even my 83 was pretty good with analog audio before I upgraded it.

I use the 93 to play both CDs and DVDs. I know that there are no Analog Outs, but rather some menu option to go to that can configure this. Since I use the HDMI for video, or is there a way to do both analog music and HDMI DVDs? Is it a PITA to switch back and forth, and is it possible?

 

[j_garcia]

Not sure what you mean? The HDMI and analog outs are both active all the time so no need to switch. On the AVR side, that's why you use the m/c analog inputs for audio and then use a different one for HDMI for movies. I use THREE different inputs for my Oppo on my Pre: one stereo analog (CD), m/c analog (7.1 input) and HDMI for video. The AVR should allow you to use any video source with the 7.1 analog inputs as well, my previous AVR and my current Pre do. What you are asking about is actually why I connect my Oppo this way.

 

[Ears to you]

Not sure what you mean? The HDMI and analog outs are both active all the time so no need to switch. On the AVR side, that's why you use the m/c analog inputs for audio and then use a different one for HDMI for movies. I use THREE different inputs for my Oppo on my Pre: one stereo analog (CD), m/c analog (7.1 input) and HDMI for video. The AVR should allow you to use any video source with the 7.1 analog inputs as well, my previous AVR and my current Pre do. What you are asking about is actually why I connect my Oppo this way.

I thought that this is one of the main differences between the Oppo 93 and the 95/105 - that there are dedicated Analog Outs on the 95/105, but not on the 93/103?

(BTW - thank you for your and ADTG's kind patience, as I maybe should have put this in the Beginners section.)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I already had virtually all my settings as you suggest, but I cannot find the Subwoofer + Main setting. (You don't mean the LFE + Main setting in the Bass Setting submenu, in the SW Mode toggle between LFE and LFE + Main, do you?)

Yeah, I meant LFE + Main, instead of LFE + THX.

 

[Ears to you]

Yeah, I meant LFE + Main, instead of LFE + THX.

With my 1911, in Direct or Pure Direct, there is no sub playing with these settings, as I just re-tried it. Am I missing a crucial step here for some reason?

 

[j_garcia]

I thought that this is one of the main differences between the Oppo 93 and the 95/105 - that there are dedicated Analog Outs on the 95/105, but not on the 93/103?

(BTW - thank you for your and ADTG's kind patience, as I maybe should have put this in the Beginners section.)

I think every Oppo in at least the last 5+ years has multichannel analog outs; the 93 most definitely does.

 

[Ears to you]

I think every Oppo in at least the last 5+ years has multichannel analog outs; the 93 most definitely does.

In the 2011 Audioholics review/preview of the Oppo 93/95, hey included this comparison chart from Oppo:

BDP-95	BDP-93
ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC for the 7.1ch analog output	Cirrus CS4382A DAC for the 7.1ch analog output
A second ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC for the stereo analog output	No dedicated stereo output (The 7.1ch output can be set to stereo mode)
Fully balanced XLR output for stereo	No XLR balanced output
Linear power supply with Rotel-made toroidal transformer for the audio section	Switching power supply
Higher grade op-amps and passive electronic components	Regular audio grade op-amps and passive electronic components
Bigger and heavier chassis
A lot more engineering hours put into the design

<tbody>
</tbody>

If I want to play music in 2.1 mode, am I confusing/being confused by the line that says: "No dedicated stereo output (The 7.1ch output can be set to stereo mode)" ?

 

[j_garcia]

Got it. That that means is there is not a separate 2ch output from the 93 like there is on the 95, which used a separate DAC different from the multichannel outputs. That doesn't prevent you from using just the R&L and sub out from the multichannel analog out, which would work better for what you want to do anyway. The 2.0 would be processed to achieve 2.1 via the 2ch outs, so you actually WANT to use the multichannel output direct to allow a 2.1 configuration and you would configure the player's speaker setup to set it to no surrounds, no center, sub yes and downmix to stereo. Those settings only apply to the analog outs so the HDMI still outputs everything bitstream to the receiver to allow it to process it.

 

[Ears to you]

Got it. That that means is there is not a separate 2ch output from the 93 like there is on the 95, which used a separate DAC different from the multichannel outputs. That doesn't prevent you from using just the R&L and sub out from the multichannel analog out, which would work better for what you want to do anyway. The 2.0 would be processed to achieve 2.1 via the 2ch outs, so you actually WANT to use the multichannel output direct to allow a 2.1 configuration and you would configure the player's speaker setup to set it to no surrounds, no center, sub yes and downmix to stereo. Those settings only apply to the analog outs so the HDMI still outputs everything bitstream to the receiver to allow it to process it.

Ah...I see. Thank you for clearing my confusion so patiently! I will dig out a couple of interconnects and give it a try, and I hope that like you, I can also hear an improvement. I guess that this also means that the DAC in the Oppo will be utilized, whereas from an HDMI connection, the Denon's DAC was being used?

 

[j_garcia]

With HDMI, you can configure it either way IMO, to have it decoded at the player and send PCM or send it Bitstream to the receiver for decoding, but bass management and any EQ, sound modes still apply on the receiver side. Analog connections would be using the player's DACs yes. On most AVRs the 7.1 ch input is not processed (cannot apply sound modes or EQ AFAIK) as it expects an already processed signal.

 

[MosesMalone]

You can just turn off Audyssey processing and it will still let you use your subwoofer.

Menu > Audio Adjust > AudysseySettings and set MultEQ to off.

 

[PENG]

With my 1911, in Direct or Pure Direct, there is no sub playing with these settings, as I just re-tried it. Am I missing a crucial step here for some reason?

I have a 1912, but I would think the 1911 would be similar. I read the 1911's owner's manual just to be sure and can confirm that you can have the subwoofer on in Stereo, Direct and even Pure Direct, just like their higher end models. You just have to get into "Bass Setting" and select "LFE+Main". "Bass Setting" is a submenu in the Speaker Setpu section.