Interesting Rant About HT Complexity

nathan_h

nathan_h

Audioholic
I’ve never once thought ‘hey it’s easier to go to a movie theater than to watch a movie at home Because the technology is too complex”.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I’ve never once thought ‘hey it’s easier to go to a movie theater than to watch a movie at home Because the technology is too complex”.
You don't deal with people who want things like this but have absolutely no clue about how it works, how to operate it or how to determine where they screwed up when it doesn't work correctly. If you have a TV/projector, AVR, speakers and a few sources, you wouldn't need to think about how easy it is but many people want to add things that increase complexity to the operation. if they have a universal remote controller, it increases the difficulty in programming it in a way they'll understand AND be able to use without constantly calling for help.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I do think it's funny what he asks about whether a stranger would know how to turn your tv on and watch something. My wife still struggles with that...
 
nathan_h

nathan_h

Audioholic
You don't deal with people who want things like this but have absolutely no clue about how it works, how to operate it or how to determine where they screwed up when it doesn't work correctly. If you have a TV/projector, AVR, speakers and a few sources, you wouldn't need to think about how easy it is but many people want to add things that increase complexity to the operation. if they have a universal remote controller, it increases the difficulty in programming it in a way they'll understand AND be able to use without constantly calling for help.
My point is that it is a giant leap of logic to say "It's hard to watch TV, so I am going to drive to a movie theater," which is the tag line of the article.

I agree that it should be easier to watch TV.

I don't agree that movie theaters are the answer to making it easier to watch TV.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
My point is that it is a giant leap of logic to say "It's hard to watch TV, so I am going to drive to a movie theater," which is the tag line of the article.

I agree that it should be easier to watch TV.

I don't agree that movie theaters are the answer to making it easier to watch TV.
Ever try to control a system that wasn't set up correctly or needs multiple remotes and they apparently lost their mind when they connected the cables?

Remote control manufacturers used to tell us to make the programming 'baby-sitter-proof'.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
This article hits a bullseye. Let me be succinct: I hate current HT video technology. What a mess. HDMI aside, because that's a very special seething turgid mess, anything to do with video drives me nuts. Motion enhancement that degrades motion presentation. Sharpness adjustments that are never quite right, from one content source to another. "Standard" or "Movie" contrast and brightness settings, and neither one looks good. Color calibration that takes special knowledge to do, and very few buyers of TVs have that knowledge. Video upscaling that often sucks, sometimes with variability in a given manufacturers product range. (Earth to Vizio...) AVRs, like my Marantz, that degrade a video signal in ways that is annoying to debug, so in disgust you hook up streaming devices to the TV and bypass the AVR. I'd go on, but it's too depressing.

I am just glad that Vizio doesn't make aircraft avionics, and that Marantz doesn't make medical electronics. I'm not an IT guy (I was in datacenter computer and network engineering), but I have read the manuals for Cisco routers and EMC VNX storage systems command line interfaces out of curiosity (two of the industry's most arcane interfaces), and I think I'd much rather use them daily than figure out how to help a friend set up his new HT system optimally with video devices I'm unfamiliar with.
 
nathan_h

nathan_h

Audioholic
Ever try to control a system that wasn't set up correctly or needs multiple remotes and they apparently lost their mind when they connected the cables?

Remote control manufacturers used to tell us to make the programming 'baby-sitter-proof'.
Again, I agree that HT automation and ease of use can be far from ideal.

I just disagree with the conclusion that this has anything to do with commercial movie theaters and their value.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Again, I agree that HT automation and ease of use can be far from ideal.

I just disagree with the conclusion that this has anything to do with commercial movie theaters and their value.
I would need to be pretty liquored up to want to go to a theater. While the AV can be good, the overall experience just isn't worth it, to me. I think they would be annoyed if I paused the movie in order to get a drink or hit the head too, but not as annoyed as I am by people who just can't shut up.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Field Marshall
This article hits a bullseye. Let me be succinct: I hate current HT video technology. What a mess. HDMI aside, because that's a very special seething turgid mess, anything to do with video drives me nuts. Motion enhancement that degrades motion presentation. Sharpness adjustments that are never quite right, from one content source to another. "Standard" or "Movie" contrast and brightness settings, and neither one looks good. Color calibration that takes special knowledge to do, and very few buyers of TVs have that knowledge. Video upscaling that often sucks, sometimes with variability in a given manufacturers product range. (Earth to Vizio...) AVRs, like my Marantz, that degrade a video signal in ways that is annoying to debug, so in disgust you hook up streaming devices to the TV and bypass the AVR. I'd go on, but it's too depressing.

I am just glad that Vizio doesn't make aircraft avionics, and that Marantz doesn't make medical electronics. I'm not an IT guy (I was in datacenter computer and network engineering), but I have read the manuals for Cisco routers and EMC VNX storage systems command line interfaces out of curiosity (two of the industry's most arcane interfaces), and I think I'd much rather use them daily than figure out how to help a friend set up his new HT system optimally with video devices I'm unfamiliar with.
Yeah, and I'm sure getting any time on that infuriating TV is nearly impossible as well, what with Snow White watching her stories all of the time and slackin' off on the housework. ;)
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah, and I'm sure getting any time on that infuriating TV is nearly impossible as well, what with Snow White watching her stories all of the time and slackin' off on the housework. ;)
Snow White works her butt off as an attorney, and I do the housework.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Field Marshall
You get Dopey to do it while she’s at work, don’t you?:p
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well we do get some confused folk around here but don't think its a huge problem, altho for some senior citizens like his parents could be some resistance to learning things like a multich home entertainment system....make 'em give up their flip phones first!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I think this article tells home truths. This is why AV and even audio is not enjoyed by many. Years ago most homes had a halfway respectable system. It was simple that is why.

Now few people I know can master it, especially my peer group. The most they can cope with is a TV and a sound bar if you are lucky.

My wife does very well with it, but she was in a high tech career in the heart failure transplantation field. If people don't come from a high tech background, all bets are off.

Many of our acquaintances would like to enjoy what high tech has to offer, and they are just intimidated.

A lot of this comes from those pesky remotes and practically none intuitive.

Most people are now computer savvy, and also use iPads and iphones.

I have long thought that the way forward is to have a universal protocol. Any system you put together should then be able to communicate with an ipad, smartphone or laptop.

The connected systems should then show up on your portable device. There should be easy set up menus and automated as far as possible. The screen should show a picture of the connected devices, and connections. You should just be able to activate any of them, by a finger press on the picture. You should not need another streaming controller other than your portable device. Remotes as we now know them need to be gone.

Speakers should be active, and WiSA improved. A pro/pro could then be a device totally out of sight.

So we really badly need highly standardized protocols and operating procedures. What we have now, is actually not fit for purpose dog's dinner, and a disgrace.

It is in the industries interest to get this right. I'm pretty sure this chaos is causing them to loose probably 90% of prospective sales and may be more.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
Again, I agree that HT automation and ease of use can be far from ideal.

I just disagree with the conclusion that this has anything to do with commercial movie theaters and their value.
Home theater isn’t that complex but it’s a ton of annoying cables ...
4k TVs look like trash for cable tv , but I don’t go to movie theater anymore high spl hurts my ear . Got ear damage from watching a ton of movies in an 3 year span ....

I don’t understand movie theater less complex? Tickets can be expensive
Ear bleeding spl levels ..... xd cinemark or I max


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Darenwh

Darenwh

Audioholic
The industry needs to get this right to survive. If any manufacturer had this right before the pandemic started then they would now dominate the marketplace.

With the capabilities of today's tablets and smart phones at least some of this, if not much of this, should be able to be done using an app on the device to complete an automatic calibration and setup of the system. An industry standard for this would be great but at the very least a manufacturer should place an automatic setup process into any app created for it's devices to assist with setting up the device. For instance, a person should be able to point a camera at their new smart TV to have the TV and app use the built in camera on the device to calibrate the TV for the lighting and manufacturing differences that are present in the room and with the TV at the time of the calibration.

Video playback devices could be made to run through a very brief 'Optimization' routine when first turned on to verify the system is optimized for the device. The optimization could then be saved into the system so that when that device is next accessed it would use the same settings. The system would need the ability to rerun the calibration of course if the user desired but generally at least the first time it would be setup for general use.

In the end, after setups and calibration routines are done the first time the system could then be used with minimal input. Automating as much of the setup as possible is needed though to truly take this hobby to the masses.

As for cabling, there needs to be a standard labeling system at the very least that will let us know what standard a cable was made specifically for. This HDMI, HDMI 2.0, HDMI 2.1 standard that every single cable can look exactly like the others with no standard way of labeling them for what generation they were made for is crazy...
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Audioholic
I was tech minded back in 1992. Had a Yamaha AVR with 4 speakers and STARZ would e-mail me the Dolby movie list every month. We had one of the first Motorola flip phones around that time too. Had work computers in the 80's, for inventory purposes and accounting. Was probably the first ones to have dial-up internet too. Remember those years. Anyway, I am one of the few that has enjoyed technology over the years and now age 77. I am buying no more speakers, my Denon AV, 4K, etc., is a 2016 model and no intent to replace, but I might get a replacement TCL, 4K, HDR, that is 3+ years old. O, my cell phone is a Samsung S4, and works fine. My wife has her domain for TV and I have mine. HT is where it is at. DTV and ROKU, keeps us entertained.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I am tech minded if I am interested in something, and it isn't obsoleted daily. I was very good at building desktop computers back near the beginning of all that, but in no time at all, my work was constantly being outdone to the point that I was endlessly upgrading mine, and everyone else's computers. Now, I am tired of working on them and setting them up. And, IMO, the actual improvements over the years have been barely noticeable for someone who uses one for not much more than internet. Especially since the upgrades were so constant, and minutely incremental.

I am finding the same to be true for audio. Now it takes a special, and expensive separate DAC, of all things, to make things right. I call BS. As far as movies and video games go, my two main speakers provide more than ample/immersive effect. No mater how many things they install to make things 'more realistic,' my brain still tells me it's BS so, it's just not my thing. Heck, I can't even stomach the content of TV anymore, and I think most of the best movie ideas have all been used up, which is why we see so many remakes now.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Heck, I can't even stomach the content of TV anymore, and I think most of the best movie ideas have all been used up, which is why we see so many remakes now.
I think that's more that the corporate types are just not very good at being creative artists :) They like a sure thing with the sequels/same idea/same actor thing....and generally it seems the buying public backs that up. There's some good independent stuff out there....it's just not mainstream.
 

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