Interconnects: Are we just hearing things?

[jneutron]

Jneutron, how would any of the factors you mention effect separation?

Very good question.

Humans hear direction based on two things, ear to ear delay (ITD, interaural time difference), and ear to ear level difference (IID, Interaural intensity difference)

(The music you purchase which is mixed down in the studio has ZERO ITD, right to left is determined strictly by the level difference caused by the pan pot)

Anything which causes a delay from right to left causes the image to shift.

Anything which causes a level difference right to left causes the image to shift.

Anything which dithers the mid/high content causes us to better perceive location (for example, a single full range driver that is moving a lot of air.

So, summary: anything which has the ability to alter right and left relative timing can cause image shift. (we are sensitive to 2 usec shifts).

Anything which can alter r-l intensity can cause image shift (we are sensitive to at least .1 dB, I suspect .05dB is closer for localization).

Any loop formed by the IC's has the capability of intercepting time varying magnetic fields. These are created by the poweramp line cords, as an example. So if the amp is forcing audio signals into the line cord, the IC's can couple to them. Never the same, of course.. And the line cord is heavy haversine, music level based of course. (this mechanism is also responsible for ground loop hum, everybody has experienced that..)

I cannot discount either the IC's or the speaker wires or the line cords altering localization parameters, which of course, is how we discern the direction of a source.

Cheers, John

 

[mtrycrafts]

I cannot discount either the IC's or the speaker wires or the line cords altering localization parameters, which of course, is how we discern the direction of a source.

Cheers, John

By your account we cannot. But, has anyone attributed any of the wires causing such localization pattern changes, in a credible manner? That is the final arbiter of truths, no?

 

[jneutron]

By your account we cannot.

That's right, buddy boy...by MY account.

Youze got a problem with dat??? Huh??

Hey there mtry..happy thanksgiving..

But, has anyone attributed any of the wires causing such localization pattern changes, in a credible manner? .

If someone published a study where they did indeed establish the connection, I would be all over them finding faults with what they did..as I would if the study said no. That's the way it's supposed to happen.

I am confident nobody has. (could be incorrect, however). I don't see anybody using actual correct stimulus, the music does not have it, and silly waveforms aren't modelling reality.. So nah, nobody..

That is the final arbiter of truths, no?

Yup.

But saying it is impossible, that's gotta go. The jury is still out..

Cheers, John

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hey there mtry..happy thanksgiving..

Thanks. Same good wishes to you.

I don't see anybody using actual correct stimulus, the music does not have it, and silly waveforms aren't modelling reality.. So nah, nobody..

What would be the correct stimulus? Can music recorded properly do? If not, how will we know if music signals will give audible differences due to cables? After all, that is reality of the final output we listen to.

Same as test signals giving level JNDs of .2 dB yet music and other real world signals yield much higher JNDs.

 

[tbewick]

I've included this graph which shows the audibility of harmonic distortion against volume (http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/THD/index.htm). The referred to site has more information on other forms of distortion, like FM and intermodulation distortion. In short, it's as you'd expect, at lower volumes, harmonic distortion is less audible than at higher volumes. The highest level of sensitivity to distortion is around 80 dB, above this volume, sensitivity decreases.

In terms of DAC and digital system performance, you can therefore see that 16 bit audio, which has very low harmonic distortion at full-scale (less than 0.01% at 1 kHz, around the frequency at which the ear is most sensitive), is understandably very transparent. At below digital full-scale, harmonic distortion will, of course, increase as the original signal is captured at a lower resolution. As the audibility graph shows, our sensitivity to harmonic distortion falls off at lower volumes, so it isn't likely to be problem. This is because in an average listening conditions, harmonic distortion is usually tolerated in whole numbers.

With regard to testing, you can do subjective tests using measures such as what the listener rates for spatial imaging, clarity, sharpness etc. In order to make such assessments useful for a general set of consumers, the tests need to be done on a range of appropriate subjects. If you don't do this, then the results are only applicable to the person you did the test on.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Thanks jneutron. When I have questions in the future I now know who to ask.

 

[Sheep]

One time I used my cables as butt-floss and my system sounded like sh!t.

SheepStar

 

[Tomorrow]

One time I used my cables as butt-floss and my system sounded like sh!t.

SheepStar

That explains a lot about your dental problems.

 

[highfihoney]

One time I used my cables as butt-floss and my system sounded like sh!t.

SheepStar

Does the room smell funny now after your system heats up