Integrating New Towers Into Current System

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craigrhyne

Enthusiast
Alright guys, currently my setup is as follows:
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR674
Sub: SVS PB12-NSD
Front L/R: Klipsch RB61's
Center: Klipsch RC-52
Surrounds: Cheap Bestbuy Speakers (KLH)

Layed out like this:



I just moved into a house with a much larger living room, and I would like to upgrade my system to exceed the requirements of the new room. Currently I'm looking at moving the RB-61s to the rear of the room and replacing them with either RF-82's or RF-63's. I am also looking at a used set of Aerial Acoustics 7B's. I recognize that using any of the previously mentioned speakers would require me to upgrade the center channel as well. My question is this: If I used the RC-52 in conjunction with the 82's, 63's, or 7B's, how bad would it sound? (better or worse than my current setup?) I would like to use my existing center channel while I save up for the matching RC-62/64. Would ceiling mounted RB-61's make good surround speakers? How would the larger floor standing speakers sound in a room of my size run by, and in conjunction with, my current setup?
Thanks,
Craig
 
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craigrhyne

Enthusiast
Sorry the image is not showing up... apparently I cant post images till I have 5 posts.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Speaker selection is very subjective. This is not because there are no objective parameters, but because they all have flaws, and so it is a question of what characteristics matter most to the individual.

My advice is to listen to the different models of speakers and judge for yourself how well you like the sound. One thing you should keep in mind, however, is that since you have a subwoofer, you don't need the main speakers to be able to reproduce anything very deep, so there is no point in spending extra money for that. It would be more cost effective to buy better bookshelf speakers than to buy towers. That way, your money goes into something that will affect what you actually hear, rather than for bass response that you don't use because of bass management sending the deep bass to the subwoofer.

About the particular models in question, my guess is that you are not going up enough higher to be worthwhile, but that is just a guess.

The speaker layout seems reasonable.
 
C

craigrhyne

Enthusiast
Speaker selection is very subjective. This is not because there are no objective parameters, but because they all have flaws, and so it is a question of what characteristics matter most to the individual.

My advice is to listen to the different models of speakers and judge for yourself how well you like the sound. One thing you should keep in mind, however, is that since you have a subwoofer, you don't need the main speakers to be able to reproduce anything very deep, so there is no point in spending extra money for that. It would be more cost effective to buy better bookshelf speakers than to buy towers. That way, your money goes into something that will affect what you actually hear, rather than for bass response that you don't use because of bass management sending the deep bass to the subwoofer.

About the particular models in question, my guess is that you are not going up enough higher to be worthwhile, but that is just a guess.

The speaker layout seems reasonable.
Surely, even with a sub woofer there is a noticeable difference between an rb-61 bookshelf speaker and an rf-82 floor standing speaker? The KLH speakers currently being used as surrounds are $30/pr at Bestbuy so hopefully the rb-61's will be a significant improvement! :)
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Surely, even with a sub woofer there is a noticeable difference between an rb-61 bookshelf speaker and an rf-82 floor standing speaker? The KLH speakers currently being used as surrounds are $30/pr at Bestbuy so hopefully the rb-61's will be a significant improvement! :)
It is difficult to tell from Klipsch's web site, but they appear to have the same tweeter:

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rb-61.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-82.aspx

So, the treble probably sounds pretty much the same.

The woofers are of the same type, though they are obviously different, as they are different sizes. However, they very likely have similar tonal characteristics, excluding deep bass. Klipsch did design these speakers as part of the same line.

Now, the towers are more efficient, so this means that they will play louder with the same power. But, does your system play as loud as you want it now without added distortion? If so, that is unnecessary and therefore pointless to spend money for it.

For the bass, they have a -3 dB of 43 Hz (RB-61) and 33 Hz (RF-82). Both are more than low enough for use with a subwoofer. Obviously, you could set the frequency in a bass management system lower with the RF-82, but it is doubtful if that would be very helpful. And both are not low enough that they don't need a subwoofer if you want the very lowest bass possible.

So, unless you want louder, it is doubtful if there is much of a sound difference between the RB-61 and the RF-82 when used with a subwoofer and compared with appropriate positioning (e.g., placed so the tweeters are at the same height, etc.).

Of course, you can listen for yourself and come to your own conclusion, but you must listen to both with the subwoofer (appropriately adjusted for each) to be a useful comparison for your purposes. Clearly, without a subwoofer, the RF-82 goes noticeably deeper, and should sound better. But with a subwoofer, unless you want louder, it probably sounds almost exactly the same.

With modern surround systems, it is almost always a far better value to go with a good bookshelf speaker than to go with floorstanding speakers. There really is no point in spending money on bass capability in a speaker if you are not going to use it.

In my case, I use Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE (original U.S. verison) for all channels, with a pair of SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers for the bass. Here are links to the new versions of each of these (mine are old, no longer made versions):

http://www.kellsieavdesign.com/products/Leisure2SE.htm

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcultra_new.cfm

The new versions should be slightly better than mine, though I have no intention of upgrading.

Now, I could have purchased higher model speakers for the main channels, such as:

http://www.kellsieavdesign.com/products/MG.htm

They cost more than twice as much, and use the same tweeter and same mid-bass driver*, but add a woofer for deeper bass. Undoubtedly, without a subwoofer, they would sound better than the Leisure 2SE. But using a subwoofer, they probably sound almost exactly the same.

And none of the Aurum Cantus speakers currently made, no matter how expensive, go as low as the SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers. Really, unless one cannot have a subwoofer for some reason, buying a tower speaker is almost always a waste of money with modern systems.


I should point out, the above is assuming you properly adjust the subwoofer and use bass management wisely. If you do not properly set it up, then you will likely hear differences caused by different levels of bass coming from the improperly set up subwoofer. Here is the real downside to a subwoofer: It enables the user to get its level wrong relative to the main speaker, whereas a full range speaker has everything already set up properly relative to each other (this is done in a well designed crossover to match the levels of the woofer and tweeter).

_____________
*This is true of the older version that I have; the new Leisure 2SE supposedly has a better mid-bass driver than the more expensive speaker.
 
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fredk

Audioholic General
The best thing is to go out and listen to the options you are considering yourself.

Everybody has a slightly different take on what gives the best value. My experience is the oposite of some others. I found that a floorstander with sub was better than the best bookshelf in that line with the same sub.

If you can compare in a proper a/b comparison where there is a switch to flib you back and forth it is much easier to compare.

If you are going with more Klipsh speakers and they match with your current speakers, then you can use the rc52s as centers. The best configuration would be one above and one below the display. This will give you the widest soundstage (best sound from off center seating) and will keep the dialog centered on the screen.

Take your time and listen to the bookself with sub vs the floorstander with sub and see which you like best.

Good luck.

Fred
 

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