jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Why is it tilting at windmills when he is caught on tape? So you would suggest just ignoring all his lies and illegal activities? What is your idea of a solution?
Just question the timing. I know prosecution of this sort takes time so I'm trying to get rid of my own bias that this has been held back and launched as he gets closer to being in the primaries.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
Just question the timing. I know prosecution of this sort takes time so I'm trying to get rid of my own bias that this has been held back and launched as he gets closer to being in the primaries.
I can understand that. History shows though, that he is the one who tries to slow any kind of litigation against him down. I just hope it moves along now that charges have been filed.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
While I detest Trump... You'll see more indictments the closer the primaries come. They are going to throw everything at him. I wouldn't mind if this wasn't the primary gain.

I clearly remember the indictments over HRC's private email server. Oh wait....
Trump's an idiot. He could have easily avoided the indictment in Florida.

It reminds me of this cartoon:

1686414367792.png


Except that Trump paints the targets on himself and then cries like a little baby when he gets charged based on his own actions.

People are fond of comparing the Clinton email fiasco with the Trump case. However, the facts and the law are different. It's apples and oranges.

The issue in the Clinton case was whether or not she should have been charged under 18 U.S.C. 793(f) for "gross negligence" with regards to handling information relating to the national defense. Comey said intent was required:

>>>Comey said there was insufficient evidence to show Clinton had malicious intent. . . . Many commentators have criticized Comey’s decision, arguing the statute Clinton was accused of violating, 18 U.S.C. § 793(f), requires only “gross negligence,” not intent.<<<

https://warontherocks.com/2016/07/why-intent-not-gross-negligence-is-the-standard-in-clinton-case/

Let's assume for purposes of discussion that Comey was wrong with regards to his interpretation of 793(f). Surely this means Trump should not have been indicted? Wrong.

First, Trump was not indicted for gross negligence in handling national defense information. He was indicted for "willfully" mishandling national defense information under 793(e). For purposes of discussion, here's part of 793(e):

>>>Whoever having unauthorized possession of . . . any document . . . relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense . . . willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."


Even if Clinton should have been indicted under 793(f), that does not mean that a different private citizen (e.g. Trump) is completely immune to any and all federal laws.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
If that were the case isn't FL a bad place? The state is conservative (or DeSantis anyway) and Trump resides there. The link does mention fairness and convenience.


.
Florida Statute § 47.011 provides three places where venue may be proper: the county where the defendant resides, the county where the cause of action accrued, and the county where the property in litigation is located.
Florida law doesn't apply where a federal crime will be prosecuted.
So, Smith follows federal law. There may be a small chance that having this in DC was acceptable but mostly it is not. Documents are in Florida, and I suppose Miami district is the closes federal district court jurisdiction.

Yes, Florida is conservative enough but the grand jury in Miami is the one who brought the charge for a trial, not Smith.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Why is it tilting at windmills when he is caught on tape? So you would suggest just ignoring all his lies and illegal activities? What is your idea of a solution?
YES, he is above the law. ;) :D
We tried Democracy. Let's try autocracy and oligarchs. :eek:
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Just question the timing. I know prosecution of this sort takes time so I'm trying to get rid of my own bias that this has been held back and launched as he gets closer to being in the primaries.
Wasn't one of the delays cause by that Trump appointed judge in Miami with the special master stuff, then waiting for the appeal? Will she further delay this to no end?
Trump likes to drag out everything in his life that threatens him. Into the primaries and further is what he wants hoping that DOJ will postpone this until after the 24 election.

Don't forget, the Miami grand jury decided to indict.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I can understand that. History shows though, that he is the one who tries to slow any kind of litigation against him down. I just hope it moves along now that charges have been filed.
Not hardly with the reappearance of that judge who slowed things down the first time. Now I see more litigation to change judges, etc.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic Chief
Don't forget the Georgia indictment that will be in about 4 weeks.... :)
Then, hopefully he will be in jail when the Jan 6th indictment destroys him totally.....I would love to smell tar and sweep feathers.
No hairspray or dye in jail.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Don't forget the Georgia indictment that will be in about 4 weeks.... :)
Then, hopefully he will be in jail when the Jan 6th indictment destroys him totally.....I would love to smell tar and sweep feathers.
No hairspray or dye in jail.
Yes, indeed. That is a state issue and DOJ rules that is not law, to not prosecute so close to election does not apply to the state AG or district AGs. :D
Oh, happy days. :D
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Once again Republicans have an opportunity to distance themselves from Trump and yet again they are on the verge of squandering it.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Once again Republicans have an opportunity to distance themselves from Trump and yet again they are on the verge of squandering it.
Why do cult members commit suicide directed by the leader? Same issue with trumpster.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Florida law doesn't apply where a federal crime will be prosecuted.
So, Smith follows federal law. There may be a small chance that having this in DC was acceptable but mostly it is not. Documents are in Florida, and I suppose Miami district is the closes federal district court jurisdiction.

Yes, Florida is conservative enough but the grand jury in Miami is the one who brought the charge for a trial, not Smith.
Maybe I said that the wrong way. The federal gov't will decide it belongs in Florida because that was where more of the crimes occurred. To show "fairness," that's why the federal law is this way.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I clearly remember the secret and higher security documents were found on HC's server. Oh, wait.
Sorry, but Clinton doesn't get a free pass either:

>>>Clinton claimed she had "zero emails that were classified."

At the conclusion of all investigations, no documents included in her emails were found to be marked as classified.

However, hundreds of bits of information that State Department officials considered classified did end up in emails on Clinton’s private server.<<<(emphasis added)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/sep/13/hillary-clinton/clinton-exaggerates-absence-classified-information/

The laws in question are violated if national defense information is improperly taken, retained, disclosed, or not returned. It is the content, not the existence of a classification that controls.

Trump and Clinton have both been playing red herring games with this.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
First, Trump was not indicted for gross negligence in handling national defense information. He was indicted for "willfully" mishandling national defense information under 793(e). For purposes of discussion, here's part of 793(e):

>>>Whoever having unauthorized possession of . . . any document . . . relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense . . . willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."
Guess I don't really understand why gross negligence would even be a consideration? Wouldn't that only apply if he did not know he had documents, or he was so dense he didn't know it was a crime to begin with???
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Maybe I said that the wrong way. The federal gov't will decide it belongs in Florida because that was where more of the crimes occurred. To show "fairness," that's why the federal law is this way.
You clarified what you meant. :)
@Mr._Clark is the expert or know how federal law works in this case. Nuanced. I better not state something I heard and cannot fully remember.;)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry, but Clinton doesn't get a free pass either:

>>>Clinton claimed she had "zero emails that were classified."

At the conclusion of all investigations, no documents included in her emails were found to be marked as classified.

However, hundreds of bits of information that State Department officials considered classified did end up in emails on Clinton’s private server.<<<(emphasis added)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/sep/13/hillary-clinton/clinton-exaggerates-absence-classified-information/

The laws in question are violated if national defense information is improperly taken, retained, disclosed, or not returned. It is the content, not the existence of a classification that controls.

Trump and Clinton have both been playing red herring games with this.
I won't argue facts. It is what it is. Just clarify my point:
And here detailed breakdown of stuff found in Trump's case:
I'll quote just in case:
15 boxes provided by Trump to NARA in January 2022. These contained 197 classified documents: 98 at SECRET; 30 at TOP SECRET; the remainder at Confidential. Some additionally had Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) and Special Access Program (SAP) markings.
During the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago Club, a further 102 documents, recovered from Trump’s office and a storage room. These included 17 documents at TOP SECRET; 54 at SECRET; 31 at CONFIDENTIAL. Of these, Trump’s office held 6 at TOP SECRET; 18 at SECRET; and 3 at CONFIDENTIAL.
That should give some perspective I hope.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I won't argue facts. It is what it is. Just clarify my point:
And here detailed breakdown of stuff found in Trump's case:
I'll quote just in case:


That should give some perspective I hope.
The laws in question do not require the information to be classified.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
So just in case you have returned from vacation to Mars these last eight years, this is what MAGA has devolved into.....


Kari Lake Warns Biden, DOJ Will Have to Go Through ‘Card-Carrying Members of the NRA’ to Get to Trump

Republican politician and commentator Kari Lake said on Friday that those seeking to prosecute former President Donald Trump would have to go through her and 75 million other Americans, before warning that many of them were “card-carrying members” of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

“I have a message tonight for Merrick Garland, and Jack Smith, and Joe Biden,” said Lake during a speech at the Georgia Republican Party convention, following news of Trump’s indictment. “And the guys back there in the fake news media, you should listen up as well, this one’s for you.”

She then warned, “If you wanna get to President Trump, you’re gonna have to go through me, and you’re gonna have to go through 75 million Americans just like me.”

“And I’m gonna tell you, most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA,” Lake continued, as the audience cheered. “That’s not a threat, that’s a public service announcement.”

Lake doubled down on her comments in a Twitter post, telling Washington Post reporter Isaac Arnsdorf, “I meant what I said.”

After former Vice President Mike Pence, the scheduled keynote speaker, dropped out of the convention less than two weeks prior, he was replaced with Lake — a vocal Trump supporter who was reported in March to be among those Trump was considering to be his 2024 running mate.

The Department of Justice unsealed an indictment of Trump on Friday with 37 criminal counts related to his handling of classified documents, which he had retained from his time as president.

According to the indictment, the documents “included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign counties; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to foreign attack.”

Watch above via Georgia Republican Party.
 
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