In-Wall Speaker Wire Confusion

[HangtownMatt]

Twelve years ago when I was building my house I had the electrician install four Sonance in-wall speakers for a future HT. Well, for the past twelve years I've happily listened to my 2-channel Conrad Johnson/Vandersteen setup and never even fired up the in-walls. All this time the speaker wires have just hung out of the wall hidden behind a piece of furniture. Recently, I've decided to pursue HT. But I'm a bit confused with the wires. I have four sets of black/white wire with each set enclosed in a gray casing. I understand these. What I'm confused about is a fifth group of four differently colored wires (black, white, red, green) wrapped in a pink casing. Can anybody tell me what these are for and where to hook them up?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[Haoleb]

Its really impossible to say what they are for over the internet. Without being there and toning out the wires theres no way to say for sure. You may want to either read into toning out wires and such, Or hire a professional installer that can make heads or tails of what is there.

 

[Johnd]

Twelve years ago when I was building my house I had the electrician install four Sonance in-wall speakers for a future HT. Well, for the past twelve years I've happily listened to my 2-channel Conrad Johnson/Vandersteen setup and never even fired up the in-walls. All this time the speaker wires have just hung out of the wall hidden behind a piece of furniture. Recently, I've decided to pursue HT. But I'm a bit confused with the wires. I have four sets of black/white wire with each set enclosed in a gray casing. I understand these. What I'm confused about is a fifth group of four differently colored wires (black, white, red, green) wrapped in a pink casing. Can anybody tell me what these are for and where to hook them up?

Thanks,

Matt

What gauge? Sounds like they could be a telephone run. Or potential 12v trigger(s) for...?

Finally... "Hook them up?" To what? For what? Cheers

 

[MDS]

They're simply 4 conductor speaker wire. If they were 16 gauge they'd be referred to as 16/4, if 14 gauge then 14/4, etc. The normal ones with only two conductors would be 16/2.

You could use that single run to one pair of speakers. By convention, the black and red would be for one speaker and the green and white for another but it doesn't really matter as long as you are consisent on both ends.

It was probably put there with the intent of using it to wire a volume control for one pair of speakers. The 16/4 would go from the receiver to the volume control and then one 16/2 to each speaker.

 

[HangtownMatt]

It was probably put there with the intent of using it to wire a volume control for one pair of speakers. The 16/4 would go from the receiver to the volume control and then one 16/2 to each speaker.

I don't understand this. Why would someone put in a separate volume control? Was this a limitation of AV receievers back than?

I'll look into toning out wires and check out Haoleb's DIY website.

It would be nice if I could remove the grills and check out the the actual wiring to the back of the speakers, but these grills must be a one-way one-time installation because they DO NOT wan't to come off. Maybe I'll just have to bust them off :<(

I was really hoping this would be something simple. Would a picture or two help?

Matt

 

[MDS]

I don't understand this. Why would someone put in a separate volume control? Was this a limitation of AV receievers back than?

The 4 conductor may have been put there just for future expansion if you ever need them, but typically they would be for volume controls.

For example, I have 16/4 that runs from the wall behind the AV stand to a wall plate on the wall next to the patio door. From that same wall plate location there are two 16/2 wires that run into the patio. When I get around to it, I will install speakers on the patio and a volume control in that wall plate. The 16/4 would be connected to Zone 2 of the receiver.

My master bathroom is wired the same way although I have no intention of putting speakers in there anytime soon.

In homes with speakers in multiple rooms you will usually find the same kind of setup with a volume control in each room. A single 16/4 can be used for 2 speakers because there are 4 conductors and it is just easier to run one single wire than 2 sets of 2 conductor wire.

 

[HangtownMatt]

MDS,

I think you nailed it! It has been twelve years and the speakers were kind of an afterthought, but I do remember some discussion about patio speakers. I'm going to have to go into the attic and investigate.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[bandphan]

vc it sounds like, as stated

 

[nfpgasmask]

Frustrated

Hey guys, I just joined. I found this thread while searching for answers to my similar issues. I just moved into a brand new house, and paid extra during the build process to have a 5.1 surround sound pre-wire installed. So, now I am moved in and trying to get my system setup.

Behind my TV, there is a wallplate that reveals a large bundle of wires. I have successfully toned out the following:

2 sets of speaker wires going to wallplate in the corner for the sub box

1 set of speaker wire going to front left

1 set of speaker wire going to rear left

I am left with 3 wires. So far, I have not been able to tone out my right front and right rear wires. It appears as though they must be severed in the ceiling or something.

Also, I have the patio prewired also. Right now, outside my patio door, there are wires sticking out of the wall. I have not been able to tone these out to anywhere either. There is a control box inside the house next to the patio door that I assume is for a patio volume control, but I cannot figure out where the heck these wires go from there.

Basically, my toner does not lie. If I cannot get a tone, back behind the TV from the right rear and right front, it means that these wires are fubar, correct? I don't have an attic or crawl space that is accessible in this house. Right above my ceiling in the theater room is the master bedroom, and there is no access. I am thinking of sticking a small camera up there to see if I can find out WTH is going on up there. The other thing, is that when I removed the blank wall plates in the ceiling, all I could do is grab a small loop of wire and (try) to pull it down. All the ceiling mounted wires were EXTRA tough to pull down except one. In fact, it was so tough I could practically hang all 215 pounds of my fat arse from these wires. It is my feeling that the prewire was installed before the drywall, and some hasty drywall installer possible hammered down sheetrock and trapped/smashed/severed at least 2 of the wires!

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions of how I can sort all this out? My brand new 52" Bravia and PS3 are sitting and taunting me.

Thanks - Bart

 

[bandphan]

pulling on them will not help the situation if they were tackced to the studs. short of trying a speaker/recv to test, pulling new wire might be it. Do you have the name of the company that did the work? If it was a new home then the wires should have been on the plans. What about the center, how man wires are outside? the plate near outside is probaby vc, and should tone to the homerun. Is the wire cl2 rated?

 

[nfpgasmask]

pulling on them will not help the situation if they were tackced to the studs. short of trying a speaker/recv to test, pulling new wire might be it. Do you have the name of the company that did the work?

Yup, a phone call has already been made. Like I said, I paid extra for this to be done, and if they messed it up, they have to come make it right. The builder guraunteed the house for 10 years, so they need to make it right.

If it was a new home then the wires should have been on the plans. What about the center, how man wires are outside? the plate near outside is probaby vc, and should tone to the homerun. Is the wire cl2 rated?

I'm no expert, so I don't know what cl2 is, but the wire looks like 18 guage, and it is in a blue jacket. There are red/black and white/green wires in the jacket. It also says oxygen free or something like that. I thought the vc plate would tone to the homerun as well, but so far, nada. One of the wires behind the TV could be center, but I am not sure. I just hooked my center channel up directly.

Also, my sub has several inputs on the back, and there are two sets of wires going to the sub area. Is this for high and low output or something? I've never had a nice setup like, and I am unfortunately a total novice at this point...

Thanks for the help,

Bart

 

[MDS]

I'm no expert, so I don't know what cl2 is, but the wire looks like 18 guage, and it is in a blue jacket. There are red/black and white/green wires in the jacket. It also says oxygen free or something like that. I thought the vc plate would tone to the homerun as well, but so far, nada. One of the wires behind the TV could be center, but I am not sure. I just hooked my center channel up directly.

Most likely the wire is 16/4 and the wires from the VC location would home run to the main wall with all the other wires. That's how my house is wired.

If they are pinched by a staple they might not tone. I had one dead CAT5 that had to be replaced for that very reason.

Also, my sub has several inputs on the back, and there are two sets of wires going to the sub area. Is this for high and low output or something? I've never had a nice setup like, and I am unfortunately a total novice at this point...

They're for high level (speaker level) inputs and outputs. They won't be used if you have a receiver with a sub pre-out. My sub has them too but I don't use them.

The installer may have run 16/4 speaker wire to the sub location for that possibility. My house is wired that way but also has 2 RG6 to that location and I terminated them with RCA jacks so I can use that wire for the sub connection from the receiver.

 

[mtrycrafts]

MDS,

I think you nailed it! It has been twelve years and the speakers were kind of an afterthought, but I do remember some discussion about patio speakers. I'm going to have to go into the attic and investigate.

Thanks,

Matt

This 4 conductor wire, where does it start and where does it end up at? Is there just one of these runs?

 

[bandphan]

glad to see you gave them a call, let them come to the work. CL2 is in wall rated cable. 16/4 would sound right back from the vc. Is there no 4 conductor wire at the homerun? That would be what your looking for the outside.

 

[nfpgasmask]

glad to see you gave them a call, let them come to the work. CL2 is in wall rated cable. 16/4 would sound right back from the vc. Is there no 4 conductor wire at the homerun? That would be what your looking for the outside.

I messed around a lot more last night, but got nowhere. Near as I can figure, I am dealing with a slip-shod wiring job. I have 7 individual speaker wires at the home run. I have successfully toned out Front Left, Rear Left, Center, Sub1, and Sub2. This leaves me with what should be Front Right and Rear Right, but these do not tone out, or work. Furthermore, I have wires coming out of the wall outside, and these do not tone to anything either.

I have put the call in and should have some sort of solution in a few weeks. Thanks for the help.

Bart